elk and thermal tunnels

[tbunao]

Myself and a fellow beast member are going on an DIY elk hunt in just 60 day's but who's counting. The both of us are whitetail hunters and avid beast followers. I know elk use thermals kind of like the way that deer do but I was wondering if anyone thinks that they bed at say the 1/3 from the top of ridges much like deer do. Or is the terrain to much for those factors.

[BassBoysLLP]

I'm no expert elk hunter, but I doubt you'll see the upper 1/3 rule of thumb apply. The upper third can be above the tree line! Traveling to the leeward side of the mountain can be quite the endeavor. You can probably find cases, but I expect them to relatively rare.

Rather than rely on rules of thumb, its more important that you understand and appreciate what is going on with the thermals throughout the day. Study how the wind and thermals are interacting with the terrain and water and adjust accordingly. The same can be said about your efforts to chase whitetails.

Good luck!

[hunter_mike]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26846&hilit=elk+bedding

[fishlips]

I have only hunted colorado in what I would consider steep terrain. I didnt have many elk encounters but the scale of the terrain is so much more than what I am used to in wisconsin. Where I was hunting I couldnt sense a thermal tunnel and if there was one I didnt notice the elk using it.

One thing I did notice is that it seemed like they did use the thermals to their advantage. The elk would come down at night to feed and head back up in the morning. Caught a few elk on their way back early in the morning.

There are some similarities between hunting whitetails and elk but its an entirely different hunt from what I am used to. My only regret was that I was not more aggressive with them

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[tbunao]

It's what I figured seeing that I've never read anything about it. Hunter_Mike thanks for the link it should help. I have this DVD from Elk101 that's really informative. Describes the daily movements of elk according to the thermals.

[stash59]

I lived and bowhunted for elk in Montana for years. But I had no clue about thermal tunnel then. From following some snow tracks a few times and where they were in relation to the elevation, prevailing wind and thermals. I wouldn't rule it out. But they may not key in on it as much as whitetails.

As stated key in on small water sources. But remember they aren't all equal. When I first got interested in elk. Every book I read mentioned steep dark timber. This occurs on north,northeast and east facing slopes. The reason is because they are in the shade most of the day from the southerly sun. Which keeps them more damp. Because of this there is more plant growth. Types of trees with low branches. More understory. Tall prime grasses near springs and small streams. In general it's thicker.

Small catchbasin type water holes don't dry out as fast. Springs from higher up sources of snowmelt run all year. All this makes these faces much cooler. Important for bull elk now in winter coats and becoming over heated due to higher testousterone levels and rut activities. So like marking leeward side faces on maps for whitetails. Instead mark all the Northerly and easterly facing slopes.

Look for benches and other flat spots on topo maps. Also saddles on finger/side ridges. Sometimes areas that have lines showing a not as steep slope can hide a small flat spot. Elk are big so they need a good sized flat spot to bed on. Early season a bull can have one particular bedding area they use day after day. But once they have a negative human encounter they usually leave it for another. Possibly miles away.

With my experience in the areas I hunted. The thermals don't usually just go straight up or down the slopes. They angle. Usually based on where the largest valley is located. These valleys always have a large creek or river in them carrying very cool water. So late evening/early morning thermals travel across and downslope towards this larger valley.

Ridgetops are affected by prevailing wind directions. But these may be way different than what's happening down in the large valley or what the weatherman says. High elevation winds are affected by what the surrounding (sometimes 10 or 20 miles away) mountain peaks and ridges are formed like. On top winds never seem to be constant for long.

Once the sun hits a hillside it doesn't take long for the daily thermals to kick in. Pulling the opposite of the early morning ones. You can have 2 opposite thermal directions on the 2 sides of the same small creek/drainage for long periods of time in the morning. The shaded side stays at the across downslope pull until either the sun shines on it or the air temperature equalizes everything and then they all pull uphill and across slope. This can take up to a couple hours somedays in someplaces.

So just getting high early doesn't always work. It depends on whether the slope is in the sun or shade. Many very good cool easterly slopes with great bedding have this early morning sun heat up occur. Which causes this quicker change to daily thermal directions.

As long as we're on elk. I don't call anywhere as much as I did 20 years ago. Especially bugles. My favorite time to bugle now is in the dark on the way back to camp or the vehicle. After hunting hours for the day end. Especially if I'm on top of a ridge. Bulls more readily answer when it's dark. I've found many of these bulls in the same area the next morning.

Cow and calf calls end up in more close encounters with bulls than bugles.

If you've been running and gunning and haven't had any answers all morning. But end up in a good saddle area with good dark cool bedding timber on one side. Late morning early afternoon. Possibly even coming across a rub or more. Stop slow down. Find a good hiding spot based on the wind and thermals. Do some calls. Maybe even a bugle or two. Then wait. At least for an hour. Not doing this on numerous occasions has cost me chances for shots at some of the biggest bulls I ever encountered. I was always in the mode that if one didn't talk. A bull wasn't there.

Even though my favorite way to hunt is solo. 2 are always better than one. Taking turns calling for each other is always more productive. The caller should stay 50 or more yards behind the shooter. The shooter should only call to stop an animal or go crazy calling to let your partner know you got a shot and it's time to met back up.

Hope this helps. I don't consider myself an expert. But much of the above came from hard learned lessons. If you have any other questions go ahead and I'll try my best.

[solocam88]

Start walking and take your time. Stop, listen, look, and SMELL. When you get into elk bedding you will smell it.

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[Swampbuck]

Stash the info you have given is spot on with what I've seen the few times I've been ... good stuff

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[JoeRE]

Good stuff what Stash said. I will add definitely use your nose, rutting elk stink like giant billy goats (and where they routinely hang out like their bedding). It lets you cover ground much more efficiently. Elk country is huge, a mile is nothing. I am still an amateur at elk hunting but to me being able to smell your prey really helped. I have smelled elk 1/3 of a mile down a drainage with the thermals rising toward me and under ideal conditions I bet they could be smelled further than that. The bull I shot last year I smelled before I saw him coming in and that let me raise my bow and get ready a few seconds faster.

[JoeRE]

One more thing I thought of - any thermal tunnel is a lot different in the mountains. For one, if you have wind blowing across a ridge, that ridge might be 1000 feet (or 3000 feet!) tall and any thermal tunnel will not be 1/3 of the way down - it will be right up near the top. My hunch is elk will be lower down, not right at the top, in a lot of situations.

When the weather is nice in the mountains I find almost all air movement is only thermal activity and hence very predictable. The air can start really swirling when the weather is unstable and wind and thermals start fighting. That is the biggest thing I struggled with when hunting in poor weather - couldn't get a consistent wind.

[stash59]

One other thing I should mention is safety. Some of the best NE facing hillsides I found for elk I quit hunting. They had lots of blow downs mixed in with everything else. Most of the time you had to actually try to get on these logs to get over/around them. Many of them had loose bark that would slip off from around the trunk at the most inoppurtune times. I was lucky I never got hurt but too many close calls made me rethink being there. The elk seemed to cruise through these areas like a walk in the park.

Another thing is physical conditioning. If your heading out from relatively flat ground areas. Even nice steep hilly areas. Even if your working out climbing steps or hills. It will take a couple days to aclimate to the higher altitudes. Especially if you get into areas over 9000 feet. So start out a little slower not trying to cover more territory than your body can handle.

One thing on smelling elk. If a good sized herd has been in a area and bedded the smell can last for days. With the elk being long gone. So it's not something fool proof. But yes if your set up calling and suddenly get a whiff get ready. This can sometimes be your only clue if the bull is being quiet and trying to sneek in.

Have fun guys!!

[stash59]

One more thing I thought of - any thermal tunnel is a lot different in the mountains. For one, if you have wind blowing across a ridge, that ridge might be 1000 feet (or 3000 feet!) tall and any thermal tunnel will not be 1/3 of the way down - it will be right up near the top. My hunch is elk will be lower down, not right at the top, in a lot of situations.

When the weather is nice in the mountains I find almost all air movement is only thermal activity and hence very predictable. The air can start really swirling when the weather is unstable and wind and thermals start fighting. That is the biggest thing I struggled with when hunting in poor weather - couldn't get a consistent wind.

I think the big thing with the mountains out west is that you can have each and every variable taking place in as far as how the land is formed and how the wind reacts. You can have a wide variety from rounded hills to steep bluff type formations all on the same ridge within a mile or less of each other. Plus add in a taller peak that climbs above the main ridgeline and you get winds that have to go around it rather than just over. Causing all sorts of different wind scenarios. Sometimes going up or downhill only 100 yards can totally change what the wind currents are doing.

Pick lots of milkweed before you go. LOTS!! And constantly use it. I used to use what I found out was egg yarn for tying eggflies for flyfishing. It worked well but a seedless milkweed thistle is way more bouyant on the air currents than egg yarn is.

[tbunao]

Thanks for all the tips and information fellas. Stash that all helps out a lot! You maybe getting a pm from me very soon. Thanks again all

[DeerDylan]

Awesome replies fellas!! much appreciated

[stash59]

I was bored yesterday so I did some playing around on Cal-Topo. I thought back on some of my bull encounters. The ones where I felt they were in or near a day bed. I was surprised to find that there may be a correlation to elk bedding in a thermal tunnel. Granted I didn't always check to see what exactly was happening with all facets of air movements. I do know that there were plenty of times when the rising thermals trumped any prevailing wind. But where the elk were bedded or at least at during late morning early afternoon. May mean when prevailing winds are strong enough these locations may be in thermal tunnels.

Here's an example of a kill:http://caltopo.com/bp/154V

The red dot is where I was when I first heard a late morning bugle.
The 3 different colored polygons/circles are possible bull bedding spots (Did not go down and confirm this). In areas where there is just a slightly less steep hillside. And also in about a 1/3 down location. Also where it sounded like he was at. And an east facing slope. As far as how I calculated the 1/3 down area. !st I just went from the top down to where the small drainages/ravines forked. Then also went from the top down to the main creek bottom (not in pic). A difference of about 1900 feet. Both methods came out within 100 feet of each other. Not a big difference in my opinion taking in the scale of the topography.
The red line is my route to my 1st setup. Note the large pie shaped area I gained elevation in. The rising thermal was moving in a way that I was quartering just off their direction. As I mentioned above. The thermals over took any prevailing wind when I got near the top in this case.
The blue line is where the bull came up to and no further. He moved back and forth at this general elevation. Also went down a few times.
The yellow line is where I slowly moved to for my 2nd set up.
The orange dot is about where he was when I shot him. If it looks like a long shot it was. Just over 60 yards. I'm not including this to brag but to show how hard it is to get a bull at times any closer. He ran straight down hill. Which helped him cover more ground. Yet he still piled up in about 100 actual steps of mine.
I hit him high and didn't break through his far ribs. So I had no bloodtrail. I followed tracks and then his smell. Here he is.

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