Mario wrote:Great padcast by Doug, Joe, and Andy my random notes I took while listening... thanks guys
Topics covered - cyber scounting, edges (transitions), food sources, seasonal bedding, Florida Swamps versus Midwest Swamps
cyber scouting via technology: They all seemed to identify the difference between identifying a hard edge versus a soft edge. In general the deer liked to bed on the hard edges of the swamp transitions, but human pressure can push deer to the softer edges. These soft and hard edges can also lead into smaller bedding pockets where deer can find a thumb, hump, or small sliver of high ground. If you have ever walked areas like this you may see fingers of trails leaving the transitions to these bedding locations. As Joe stated these trails may be very faint so need closer observation.
Boots on the ground: They all seems to state that their learning curve is scouting a particular swamp 2-3 times to really start to learn it, then evolve and learn the area over the course of 1-3 years. To really learn an area to combine reviewing a map multiple times, walking an area multiple times, then matching this to the behavior they see in the property. Often it takes multiple hunting seasons to really learn an area. Andy mentions find dead head buck also helps.
Do they know they are being hunted?
They may not be bedded with their nose and eyes in mind, once the pressure hits they start to move off the transitions
Early season the swamps can be sensitive, the deer are more than likely out on the edges and not into the swamp. Unless there are food sources that are drawing them into the area. Once they know they are being hunted or they have been pressured it becomes very hard to hunt them.
- during the swamps the bucks seem to move around a lot more following and patterning doe bedding areas versus holding tight to normal bedding areas.
Deeper water can form a back wall of protection for them to bed. Try to find where deer are cutting around water (deeper water), for PK it was rare for him to see deer swim deep water in the swamps, but deer tend to travel around it. So cutting them off where they travel around it, or cutting off their access points is good.
PK brought up a thinking out the box, break the normal hunting patterns, understand how mature deer use their nose
Still hunting in deeper water and being able to walk quietly in swamps.
bucks tend to concentrate on food sources and protection from the elements, away from the snow and ice. So they may vacate these areas all together or they may move into the areas where cedar or tamarak cover is more prevalent
Bucks tend to bed in these areas for a short period of time 2-3 days, Andy brought up about a large buck he chased that only showed up in a specific areas for a very small amount of time
Andy told a very specific story about one buck, take homes from the story was how he slowly observed and staged in on this buck observing how the buck moved to and from a secluded bedding area for a very specific time of the year. Tracking the day light movement of this buck, and not moving in from observation until the buck moved far enough where Andy could hunt him (On a edge, bowl, and more etc..). Other hunters were hunting up towards the food sources which this buck never made it to them in daylight. The buck only traveled under security cover (dense cover on transitions).
Ground hunting approach in the swamp
Andy - hunting from the ground or very very low. Manly because it can be hard to find good trees because they are only getting just to the transition edge, they are not condusive for a treestand or saddle.
Joe - sitting just off of bedding on small hight points on the ground where you are hunting their access trails right on the edge. On the swamps you have to be so careful in trees because deer can catch movement as you are climbing. There is not an exact height that always works, you have to think about how the deer might be looking out of bedding and what they can see on that horizon as they look out from bedding
Picking a Tree
(PK) as high as neccessary, and as low as possible. Just high enough to get a shot or maintain cover. advantage.
Wind or Thermals in swamp
Joe - wind seems consisent in open cattail swamps, cedar swamps swirl and are much more in consistant. Definately agree that you want to be in the swamp where your thermals can pull into the swamp away from bedding.
Andy - Thermals play a very important role on the edge, was a hard learning curve at first. Utilized a creek bed access to utilize the water to cover his sent, and allow his thermals to pull right to the creek bed because he could step out the creek bed to the tree he hunted. It was good when the temperatures were in the 60, 70s when the water of the creek got warm to keep the pull.
PK - Also considers the wind pattern and thermal pattern and how that will change as the evening draws closer. The sun is very intense which really heats up the water, so the water maintains heat during the entire day which becomes a thermal magnet, pulling air and thermals from all aournd. PK really like to hunt below the water line since he has seen bucks sit at the water line, so setting up below the water line allows him to be down thermal of that buck which is a significant
- universally oaks, and browing on other small foliage is common across all, changes in the season
Wind Specific Bedding
PK - in his areas he feels thermals are used more than wind, they use their sight and hearing. So the beds are typically being used on mulitple winds becuase those other senses are being used more. Do see them bed bedding for the predominant or most common wind of the area. Also keys in on broken areas, or patches of topography where the trees and undergrowth will push or swirl the wind in different direction.
Joe - same as PK, does not see a lot of wind specific bedding. They seem more secure with thier nose, and they use their eye sight and ears more. Also has seen topography that funnels or channels wind into a specific area which Joe has found deer to congregate at but becomes very hard to hunt. If they can leave their bed with the wind in their nose, they may move out of their bed earlier. So if you are hunting exit trails, that is one thing to consider.
Andy - more wind specific when deer are bedding right off of a point that comes off of a high ground. The remote islands appear to be on any wind because they have other factors that play into the security of the location. But this is hard to prove since a lot of data would need to be collected on how bucks travel out of the points on different winds to understand why.
It was this one, right?... viewtopic.php?f=159&t=58410