Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

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Bbostrom
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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby Bbostrom » Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:27 pm

The rutting moon is November 14 this year

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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby DaHunter » Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:00 pm

Bbostrom wrote:The rutting moon is November 14 this year

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Thanks! I was thinking second week of November for vacation anyway, so that makes it even better!

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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby JoeRE » Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:34 am

Hawthorne wrote:Joe, what phase of the moon is the rutting moon? 2nd full moon after the fall equinox? I've heard a couple different opinions .I've seen flurrys of rutting activity in my area from oct25-nov14 over the years and never could predict why. I've actually had my best luck around the full moon phase in the mornings. Thanks

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Yea that touches on what I am really trying to time every year - those flurries of rutting activity PARTICULARLY pre-rut activity and early flurries of seeking or cruising because I don't care for peak rut hunting. That is what I am really after in all this. Most years there are flurries of cruising activity around here Nov 5-10th as the first does come into estrus and Nov 18-22 or so after most does have been bred. But these flurries of rutting activity do seem to vary year to year whether it be pre rut, peak rut, or post rut. Keep in mind I have trail cameras and hunt over a several county area in eastern Iowa so when I get lots of observations of bucks on their feet, something bigger is causing it. A big factor obviously is weather. Give me a big cold front in late October with a 20 degree temperature swing and there will be more pre-rut activity. But I am certain that is not just weather because I have watched these rut flurries occur during stable weather. I have also watched rutting activity vary a lot during identical cold fronts in terms of temperature and pressure swings. That is what brought me back to the moon as another factor.

That 4-6 day window I mentioned previously probably is on the low end, it might be as much as a week period centered around the full moon. Also, I said the rutting moon but really I just mean ANY full moon from mid October to late November. Most of the time this full moon is called the rutting moon, the second full moon after the fall equinox, but for instance in 2013 the first full moon was October 18th and the "rutting moon" was November 17th. I observed better than average movement around each of these time periods. I distinctly remember (and have in my notes) the weekend of November 16-17th 2013 because bucks were really up and cruising all day, I saw a lot driving around, even though it was about 60 degrees which is hot for that time of year!

If the full moon lands in what I see as the lockdown phase of the rut - this next year, 2016 on November 14th, overall there will be more daylight rutting activity in that time period. BUT most years this time period is like a ghost town in the deer woods so more than nothing is still not much. Usually I don't hunt much at all in the lockdown phase but maybe this year I will try a hunt or two even though I think most mature bucks will still be with does, maybe the few that are not will be more inclined to move more. Its NOT like peak rut is going to be Nov 14th, but I am certain there will be more activity than usual. Correspondingly the time leading up to that will have less than usual. So yea, I think around here 2016 will be more of a trickle rut than anything else. Last year in 2015 there was a huge spike in pre-rut activity around the full moon and then the rut was pretty stagnant after that even when it cooled way down after the first few days of November which were warm. Like I said I can't explain it, I know studies have not found a correlation (note that is not saying "there is no correlation"), but what I have observed and taken from my half dozen trail cameras just seems pretty clear every single year. Note all these dates I throw around are regional. "Peak" rut does vary - down in southern Iowa is a couple days later IMO, in Ohio I have heard its a week later. If Nov 14th lines up with peak rut for you that's a good thing. Its just into full on lockdown here.

At the end of the day though keep in mind the rutting moon is only one of many things I am looking at. I was hesitant to bring it up because I didn't want it to get blown out of proportion. Like I mentioned before I treat it sort of like a big cold front - one that I can plan for all year. If you are a hard core hunter who is reading this and disagreeing that's fine I bet we agree on 90% of other stuff and we both can kill lots of big bucks.

Heck around here we can have a "trickle rut" if harvest is late and all the does hide from bucks in standing corn - the rut is happening we hunters just can't see it. Another thing to complicate matters, there are LOCAL peaks of rutting activity that I try to time too. My theory is there are old matriarchal does that come into estrus the same time for several years in a row, and that is when I see those local peaks. I am mainly interested in the early peaks because that is when I can pick off a big buck - as mentioned previously I am not a fan of peak rut, too many hunters and all the big bucks are probably busy with does already. I had one area that for 4 years in a row would go nuts in Late October 25th-28th. The last two years of that time period I had it figured out and had a couple awesome hunts in that 4 day window, didn't tag a big buck either hunt but that was my fault. On one (Oct 27th) I had a hot doe (the doe, or one of them, that was causing that early flurry of rutting activity) followed by 4 bucks in a trance come by in thick cover, couldn't get a shot. I should have killed the biggest one a 150+ inch 9 pointer. THOSE early flurries I am obsessed with finding! That was the last year I saw an early flurry like that in that spot, doe probably died. There are lots of factors, and I freely admit my opinions may change some over the years as I learn and gather more data. If I have your head spinning - mine spins sometime too. The thing to live and die by though is when in doubt, act!
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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby fishlips » Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:56 am

About half way through the podcast. Good stuff. I really like the discussion about getting more efficient with your time and biting off small pieces when you get chances to get out. Great approach that I think can be applied by a lot of people.
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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby Ridgerunner7 » Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:01 am

I liked it Joe. Seems like you and I do things very similar and you probably hunt as little as I get to. Good job!
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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby JAB » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:52 am

Nicely done Joe and Mario, thanks for taking the time to put this together.

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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby Dewey » Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:03 pm

I finished listening to it today. I picked up a lot of stuff that will help me with hill country. Great job guys. :clap:

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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby Kokes » Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:19 pm

Finished the podcast today and learned alot. Can you do a sequel Joe where you talk more about your ground hunt set ups and strategies :))) if not I will just keep following the ground hunting thread that Lockdown started as that's got some great info on it as well..

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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby mainebowhunter » Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:59 pm

Nice Joe...good podcast. Its interesting that you mentioned having more properties than you can actually hunt. Having 10 different properties that you scout but only hunt maybe 5 of them. Over the past couple years, same direction I am headed. In years past, I start the season with so much potential...but properties go cold, spots do not turn out as planned. ALL of the properties, they are not enough.

I am self employed....so my time is not nearly as limited as yours.

Some great takeaways.
1. Tracks. I have paid attention to them in the past...but need to pay more attention to them.
2. Having enough properties and sets in high percentage spots to keep things fresh.
3. Passing on our hunting heritage. Got me thinking about my own 8yr old son...wondering how much I should push him. Really does not share the same passion for the outdoors as I do.

Also interesting to see many of us kind of coming to the same conclusions about hunting smarter, not harder. Its all part of maturing as a hunter...you do not HAVE to be on stand everyday morning and night to be successful.
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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby strutnrut716 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:48 am

:clap:
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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby JoeRE » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:12 am

Thanks guys glad you enjoyed it. I told Mario I would be open to another talk sometime, his decision but there are many other Beasts I would like to hear too first if they are comfortable doing one.


Yes Maine that is exactly how I looked at it. Public land pressure (private with a bunch of hunters for that matter too) changes a lot from year to year. Add on different food sources and things going on at adjacent properties and there is a lot of change. I was sick of sitting half way through the season feeling like I didn't have any "good" areas in front of me. I hear that a lot every fall from other hunters too, my property is getting logged or coon hunters are hitting my best area or something like that. I told myself that will not happen again to me.

Go ahead and scout twice as much as you will likely hunt, worst case scenario you might get to it all. I just love covering country anyway so its fun. Even with my limited time, I am on track this spring to cover about as much ground as I did last year, some new stuff too, and I even got a late start because I didn't feel like doing anything till later in Feb. A couple hours a week here and there adds up week after week, its a long term goal. I have adjusted a few spots, found a few new ones, found 7 sheds so far (about average for me - its just something on the side to be found while scouting, I am not one of those shed crazy guys), and one big dead buck that I have a lot of history with, rest soundly my friend.

One thing I would add is still try to prioritize it all and STICK WITH IT untill something obvious warrants crossing a place off the list so you don't get overwhelmed by decision making. Its easier to decide between two top spots than 5 or 10.

The guys I kinda feel sorry for are the ones that hunt stuff half a day drive or more away from where they live. No denying that makes things tougher but be creative. Trail cameras and a well timed weekend trip or two can add up as well. Cyber scouting gives you a really good start, but that's about it IMO.

Here's the dead buck. He was just an average 8, 130 inches or so, but an old deer, teeth were very worn. My guess would be bare minimum 6 years old. I planned on killing him in 2014 with my bow actually, had him on camera coming from a bedding area routinely, almost every south wind through mid October. That year I was anxious just to fill my tag as my wife was close to having a baby and it seemed slam dunk. I hunted that spot Oct 23rd and a different buck appeared out of nowhere that I had not seen in 2 years and ended up wearing my tag. The hunting gods smiled. I was focused on other bucks in 2015. This buck was a recluse, didn't move much, didn't participate in the rut much, never was top dog I think. He shifted his home range to avoid other bucks I think.

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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby olivertractor » Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:59 pm

I know a few engineers, maybe I could get them to run an annual log for me :think: :lol:

Great podcast Mario and Joe
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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby woody-san » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:05 am

Great podcast! As a fellow public land hunter, I got a lot out of it. Thanks Joe and Mario
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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby MOBIGBUCKS » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:32 am

Fantastic podcast Joe. I really enjoyed it.


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