Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

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kurt
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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby kurt » Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:24 pm

Great job

I could have listened for hours.

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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby daveynewman » Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:27 pm

podcasts are amazing. so much knowledge in them. best part is its from different beast members.

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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby BassBoysLLP » Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:29 pm

:clap: I'm glad to know I'm not the only rambler out there. Good stuff.
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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby Jackson Marsh » Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:34 pm

Thanks Joe and Mario! Well done :clap:

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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby wickedbruiser » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:14 pm

Well done on the podcast guys! Enjoyed listening.

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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby hunter_mike » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:54 pm

Yep that was a good one. Great job with the podcast. I liked the idea of focusing on the "when" as much or more than the "where".

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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby Lockdown » Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:22 pm

I was going to go to bed early tonight and started the podcast a little after 8:00. Next thing I see is 111 minutes :shock: So much for the early bed time! Great podcast once again!

Joe you mentioned there were subjects that you touched on and didn't have time to elaborate as in depth as you would have liked to. I think I speak for everyone when I say get your list of topics back out and start typing! :mrgreen:
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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby cbigbear » Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:44 am

Joe could you post some pics of your saddle setup? How many sticks do you normally carry & what do you use for a platform? Also how do you pack any extra gear or clothing?

I hunted a lot more from my saddle this year & will probably do more next year. I'm in the process of trying to streamline my saddle setup. I'm really happy with my hang-on system, but not there yet with the saddle.

I end up packing a lot of gear on a hunt. I would much rather go minimal, but all my hunts are 2 hrs away & one day hunts. This being the case I have to squeeze in hunting, scouting, & running cams. I end up with cam(s), batteries, card reader, tree mounts plus normal hunting gear.
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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby JoeRE » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:23 am

Thanks guys.

A few answers to some comments:

cbigbear - I use 3 or 4 climbing sticks with a 5' etrier to climb trees. I loop the etrier around the sticks and sling it across my back to carry it. I hang the etrier off the bottom step of the bottom stick set as high as I can reach, that allows me to get to 18-20 feet with three sticks.

Image

My saddle is one of the original trophyline tree saddles, the place that went out of business a few years ago. I really like it but honestly have never tried anything else. I will try to take a picture when I have a minute. The only mod I have done is shorten up the straps which came way too long for what I use it for. Now they don't get tangled or flap around in the wind.

I stand on three tree steps, strap on or screw in if its a place I can do that. The three steps are spaced out 90 degrees apart around the tree - so the far two are opposite each other. I know some use much more but that is all I have ever needed. I can step back to the center step with either foot and that allows me to spin around enough to shoot 360 degrees. I often try to set up with my feet at the fork of a tree or a really big branch to offer more concealment and to use as a footrest in lieu of one or more of the tree steps but only if the right tree has that.

I always carry a camera around my neck while hunting. Chalk that up as my one luxury. As a trade off I never carry binos. If a deer is at a distance I will just zoom in with my camera, but honesty I think binos are overrated for stand hunting at least hunting around here in the hills. I almost never have situations where I NEED to look through binos. Its rare I can see more than a 100, maybe 200 yards in some setups. I don't NEED to know how many points a buck has, I typically know if its a shooter at a glance. This probably helps me stay calm up to the shot too, no going ga-ga through binos at an approaching buck. Beyond that I don't care although I like to take pictures to catalog the deer. I do carry a pack, the main thing in it is my outer layer of clothes that I carry in with me so I can move faster and not get sweat up...as much anyway. I put the outer later on at the base of the tree or sometimes 100-200 yards out depending on the situation, how stealthy I need to be. I keep my platform steps in the pack, maybe food/water if its a long hunt otherwise not, balaclava, spare release, and trigger finger mittens to put over my light gloves when needed or replace one if I drop a glove out of the tree. In my pockets I have pull up rope, grunt call, predator call, range finder, bow hanger (has several hooks so I can hang pack, quiver, and bow off it), handkerchief, milkweed. Here is a tip - to make a good snort wheeze flip around your grunt call and blow into it backward, really projects the fft-fft-fffffff where you want it. Going from memory I think that is it. Phone (turned OFF!!), keys and wallet too I guess. A number of items but all small and lightweight. Yes sometimes I carry in or out a trail camera or two as well. As I mentioned in the podcast I scrapped the rattling horns for good.




seazofcheeze wrote:Good stuff Mario and Joe. I keep hearing consistent themes from the the BBSKs that have been on the podcasts:

1. Lots of outdoor experience early on...no replacement for time in the woods
2. Humble beginnings
3. Willingness to try new things/think outside the box
4. Willingness to make mistakes
5. Learning from mistakes
6. Details, details, details. Scouting, entrance/exit routes, wind/thermals, seasonal timing
7. Hard work and perseverance...I haven't heard a single podcast about shortcuts yet

The podcasts are a great supplement to the website and help re-inforce the threads. The road map is there for the aspiring BBSKs like myself and so many others on the site, just have to keep gaining experience and learning as we go.


Those are some great points Seaz. You are right, the fundamentals to succeed are the same. Frankly its probably 90% mental, just like you describe, and everything else will work out from there.

At the end of the day everybody applies those common fundamentals to their unique situation which is something I had wanted to touch on too. The small differences a person sees between hard core hunters are mostly just a result of each person's unique situation. At that precise level, there is not one exact formula to success. I focus on efficiency, data, evenly spreading out the work load through the year because those things are my strengths and what is necessary given everything else in my life. A person should play to their strengths and and find what fits for them but at the same time push outside their comfort zone enough to keep growing and learning. That last item is really important. If a person doesn't push outside their comfort zone they will not develop. That applies to most things in life. Its ok to try something and suck at it. Its better than ok, its expected. That is one of the reasons I started poking around a little bit in north central WI big woods. Man am I a fish out of water up there. I hope to do a lot more when I have time to...which might not be for 20 years LOL.

A couple other things:

Picking the right spot for a setup. Mario asked me that and I didn't give a very detailed answer. For one, I admit in hills its probably easier than many other terrains to pick the right spot. There are so many bottlenecks and restrictions on travel corridors. Something I focus on is understanding how a big buck moves...meaning NOT "deer in general." Think of a big buck as a completely different animal than ANY OTHER DEER. Ignore all that other sign - not to the point of getting busted by other deer or anything like that but in terms of trying to cover every trail etc. I started hunting by finding the heaviest sign and setting up on that. Anyone who knows big bucks, knows that isn't how to do it. Of all the mature bucks I have observed, VERY few came walking down the heaviest deer trail near me!

When coming back to bed they are j-hooking often w/o a discernible trail, when cruising they are often moving perpendicular to doe trails scent checking each one, and often just in general in hill country they are side-hilling at the military crest (even on WINDWARD slopes by the way) I think it is as much a sight advantage as a a scent advantage to travel on the military crest, and often the "heaviest deer sign" is further up slope sometimes on the ridge top itself. For me, picking the right setup was made easier when I started thinking of them as basically a different species, with different travel routes. Also as I said in the podcast don't be afraid to jump in, be aggressive, you will screw up a lot at first but can then learn a lot too. I think you learn a lot more that way than hanging back.

Scrapes Scrapes have gotten a bad rap in recent years with studies showing the vast majority of use to be at night. I have no reason to disagree with that but really its all about the scrape. Most scrapes are not worth hunting, but there are two types I do hunt. I don't think its just that I hunt a moderate to low pressure area either as I have heard John Eberhart has great success with this as well. The first is what has been called on here a "buck bed scrape." That is a scrape in or right next to buck bedding. These are money because every buck using the bedding cannot resist working or at least passing close downwind to scent check the scrape. Think of it as a virtual bottleneck as if a 10 foot tall fence completely surrounded the bedding area with the only gap right around the scrape! Often these scrapes are within eyesight of the bedding but not always, and sometimes you can set up undetected just beyond the scrape, or they can work for a morning hunt. I killed my 2014 bow buck, a very old wary public land buck that I am sure dodged countless hunters over the years, in this situation. If I showed anyone where I setup there w/o showing them the scrape they would say - why on earth are you set up here? There were many trails into the bedding out of bow range, but the location of that scrape made all the difference.

The second scrape I hunt are primary scrapes (what I would call scrapes that are there every year) that are all of the following a) downwind of or otherwise near (sometimes just at the entrance to) doe bedding areas b) VERY secure (undisturbed) and c) on buck pre-rut travel routes and therefor typically between buck and doe bedding. Frankly these two types are not always distinctly different, these are just examples. If buck and doe bedding are right next to each other there might be a scrape right between them that fits both definitions. In the late pre-rut these primary scrapes on buck travel routes get pounded and if they are in a secure enough area and relatively close to pre-rut buck bedding (I see bucks bedding closer and closer to does as the rut draws near) they will get daylight activity. The ones I target usually the first stop for a buck on his nightly circuit to find that first doe in estrus in the late pre-rut/seeking phase. Basically, scrapes in very secure areas relatively near buck bedding are great places for a setup and all other scrapes in less secure areas are why scrape hunting has a bad rap. On these types of scrapes, I get lots of daylight activity and have the trail camera intel to prove it.

Once again though its the travel route not the scrape itself I am hunting. I think of travel routes as a series of destinations and that helps me pick my setups - that ties back to "picking the right spot." Put together the likely destinations, then decide which if any will see daylight activity and then look at the travel routes to and from there.

Rutting moon - I know there are a billion opinions on this but for whatever reason I see increased daylight rutting activity coinciding with a 4-6 day window around the rutting moon and also somewhat less during the other portions of the rut. If it occurs during the pre-rut I see more aggressive seeking behavior (2015, 2012, 2009) with the rest of the rut sort of fading away. If it occurs during the cruising phase I see tons of cruising activity (2014, 2011, 2008, 2006). If it occurs later in November (2013, 2010, 2007) I see more activity than usual around that time but less than usual activity leading up to that - the dreaded trickle rut. Barring extreme weather events that is what I have seen in my notes for the past 10 years. That is based on my notes but also observing posts in the Kill zone on here, and the live from the stand thread. It has gotten to the point where I plan for the increased activity around the rutting moon as confidently as if it were a major cold front rolling through. I think only extreme heat can put a damper on it. I also plan for somewhat suppressed activity in other portions of the rut - sort of makes them even more weather dependent. Note I am NOT saying the timing of the rut is changing, and I can't explain why, its just what I have seen. Maybe its due to some other factors I can't figure out but it has served me well in the past.

There are other things I could talk about in regard to the data I look at from past hunts and trail cameras but if you are curious about that just read my 2015 journal.

Anyway, that's enough for now :lol:
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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby cameron » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:40 am

I got part way thru yesterday at work but then got too busy! Can't wait to finish it! Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us Joe!

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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby Hawthorne » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:04 am

Joe, what phase of the moon is the rutting moon? 2nd full moon after the fall equinox? I've heard a couple different opinions .I've seen flurrys of rutting activity in my area from oct25-nov14 over the years and never could predict why. I've actually had my best luck around the full moon phase in the mornings. Thanks

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Last edited by Hawthorne on Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby Jeff G » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:18 am

nice podcast guys. :clap: :clap: I love that you made your own stand back in the day :D
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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby PK_ » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:47 am

I really enjoyed it.
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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby Dewey » Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:27 am

Started listening on my way to work today. Enjoying it very much so far. 8-)

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Re: Episode #7 - Whitetail Tactics with Joe Elsinger "JoeRE"

Unread postby DaHunter » Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:37 pm

When is the rutting moon for 2016?

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