Activated carbon fraud

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Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Mon May 24, 2010 10:45 am

I seen this on another site. Has anyone heard about this?

"Court Says Claims Fail Smell Test

A Federal District Judge has ruled that ALS, the manufacturer of Scent Lok clothing has failed a smell test as it were with claims that the company had 'odor-eliminating technology' or 'odor eliminating clothing'.

The same ruling says that Cabela's and Gander Mountain - both of which sell Scent Lok and their own private-label clothing are also guilty of deceptive advertising.
The Court's ruling says the "Defendants have published countless advertisements" almost all of which "utilize the slogans 'odor-eliminating technology' or 'odor-eliminating clothing.'" The Court further found that the experts agreed that the Scent Lok clothing "cannot eliminate odor, even when new."

The Court held that all advertisements that used the words "odor-eliminating technology," "odor-eliminating clothing," "eliminates all types of odor," "odor elimination," "remove all odor," "complete scent elimination," "scent-free," "works on 100% of your scent 100% of the time," "all human scent," "odor is eradicated," and graphics demonstrating that human odor cannot escape the carbon-embedded fabric are all false statements as a matter of law.

In addition, the Court found claims that the Scent Lok clothing could be "reactivated" to "like new" or "pristine" condition to be false as a matter of law.

An injunction barring ALS/Scent Lok, Cabela's and Gander Mountain from "further deceptive practices" will be issued.

With that ruling, claims against the companies could move to trial.

The case began in 2007 when Minnesota hunters Mike Buetow, Gary Steven Richardson, Jr, Joe Rohrbach, Jeff Brosi and Dennis Deeb, filed suit against ALS, Cabela's, Cabela's Wholesale and Gander Mountain, claiming their odor controlling clothing failed to perform as advertised.

Their complaint alleged that the clothing did not "eliminate" odor, and could not be "reactivated or regenerated in a household (clothes) dryer after the clothing has become saturated with odors".

During the course of the lawsuit, scientists from both sides worked to prove-or disprove-the claims.

As you can imagine, the results disagreed in all but one key area: both plaintiff's and defendant's attorneys and scientists agreed that carbon-embedded clothing cannot eliminate 100% of a hunter's odor.

In this case "eliminate" was the key decision point- the court ruled that the word "eliminate" meant "a complete removal" the same way a claim to remove roaches from a home would mean "all roaches" not just some.

Some of the ads, however, went on to use phrases such as "complete scent elimination" "scent free" "works on 100% of your scent (100% of the time)" and "odor is eradicated".

In the court's eyes, those claims were false and misleading - beyond any test of reasonableness.

Other ads, however, used enough language to qualify the claims they made. The Court tossed a claim for a declaratory judgement from the hunters on those advertisements.

So, you might ask, do the findings in the case prove that clothing really can't mask human scent?"


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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby dan » Mon May 24, 2010 10:51 am

Yes, I have seen that and agree with the court findings...
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby NatureBoy » Mon May 24, 2010 12:03 pm

Thanks for sharing. I think most of us here have heard or read of this ruling. I also think that most of us that use carbon clothing don't believe that it eliminates 100% of human odor. Rather we believe from observation and personal testing that it helps to reduce human scent enough to avoid putting deer on full alert or bolting before giving us a shot opportunity.
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Mon May 24, 2010 12:36 pm

Since I didn't notice it posted on here and the ruling only came down ten days ago I figured I would post it here just to make sure everyone knew about it. I'm curious what will happen from here.

I wonder if they used a video in court like the one Dan (?) posted of the dog following the trail of the Scent-Lok clad hunter :?:
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby PASwamper » Mon May 24, 2010 3:23 pm

I myself was decieved, maybe I can sue and get my $$$ back :lol: !!! I was absolutely ridiculous about scent control until last season. Since my scent blocker clothing is a little warm, early season I starting wearing lighter pants and a t-shirt washing them in scent eliminating clothes wash. I'd shower before hunting when I could, and scrubbed my boots with the wash too. Found I saw about the same amount of deer and got busted with about the same frequency when I was using the carbon clothing. So I really don't think the carbon did much for me. The thing I think helps is keeping the clothes and boots as clean as I can because 10 years ago when I started archery hunting I didn't do this and got busted a lot more. Could be lots of reasons for this but washing my stinky clothing and keeping it somewhere it won't collect foreign odors makes a lot of sense whether its a t-shirt or fraudulant scent free clothing.
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby Swampthing » Mon May 24, 2010 4:24 pm

B4 I found the HUNTING BEAST and Dan,s MARSH HUNTING videos the most faith I ever had in any 1 hunter was John Eberhart.And he lived by SCENTLOCK clothing and highly supported it,to him it was as important as the bow he shot his deer with.I spent a ton of money on the stuff,why would,nt I.All the ads, all the hype led us all to believe that not having the stuff was a critical mistake if you were really serious about your hunting.
No man wants to admit he was deceived by anyone.I,m not gonna pretend that I knew it only blocked partial scent.
I don,t remember the ads stating "buy our product it will help contain some of your scent"
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby NatureBoy » Tue May 25, 2010 12:33 am

Swampthing wrote:...the most faith I ever had in any 1 hunter was John Eberhart.And he lived by SCENTLOCK clothing and highly supported it,to him it was as important as the bow he shot his deer with....

It's true, John really does push Scentlok. He also typically hunts very high, 25' minimum, performs a complete scent reduction routine, and plays the wind whenever possible. You'll notice in his books and DVD's that, although he clearly states his belief in the product, he doesn't claim that it eliminates human scent. He uses words like, "reduce" to describe it. Like Dan always says, you'd have be in a plastic bubble to completely contain all human scent.

Seems like everyone we look up to endorses something, and I believe in John's case, he sincerely believes in the product, just like a lot of guys here, including me believe in and endorse the quality of LW products, even though most of us don't get a penny for doing so. Sucks when you feel you've been deceived though :cry: .
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby dan » Tue May 25, 2010 2:08 am

I hate to say this... But as far as products go, I think the hunting industry is the most fraudulent. It seems like everybody wants to be a star in this industry, and there is a trade belief that in order to make it big you need to copy others who have. And that means making your money by taking on as many sponsors as possible, kissing as many sponsor asses as possible, and painting a perfect picture of those sponsor products as possible. It really don't seem to matter what the so called Pro really thinks, it matters more who pays him the most.
When I worked with Andrea there was a very well known celebrity that I am not going to name, but he would come to the show and buy a crap load of L/W treestands from us and the best we would do is dealer cost. He was sponsored by Summit brand stands and to us he would tell us how much they suck, creaking and popping all the time, said he couldn't stand them.
So him and his whole hunting staff used Lone Wolf stands, but then he would dub in sitting in the summit and shooting from the summit for there TV show...
I have had other big name guys tell me there is no way scent containing clothes work, but they are paying the bills.
The statment thats thrown at me all the time is "Dan, your going about this all wrong, you should never say something don't work, or is junk. somewhere down the road your going to need sponsor money for a show and your going to need cash sponsors from each division of the industry, scent manufactures, cover scents, scent free clothing, are a big part of the paycheck, don't burn those bridges"
Unfortunately, it seems that whenever you ask a "Pro" his opinion about anything its tuned into some sort of product endorsment that has little to do with facts, and more to do with who is paying his bills.
Personally I would rather not have a TV show, than to lower myself to telling my friends and followers to use something I don't believe in.
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby Wrinkleneck » Tue May 25, 2010 2:24 am

You put some GREAT points of interest out there Dan!! :idea: Use what works best for you and don't get caught up in all the hoopla with what the celeb's use.
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby NatureBoy » Tue May 25, 2010 2:25 am

dan wrote:Personally I would rather not have a TV show, than to lower myself to telling my friends and followers to use something I don't believe in.

That kind of integrity is rare. Love it! You rock dude.
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby Mountain Man » Tue May 25, 2010 5:43 am

NatureBoy wrote:
dan wrote:Personally I would rather not have a TV show, than to lower myself to telling my friends and followers to use something I don't believe in.

That kind of integrity is rare. Love it! You rock dude.


x2
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby Mountain Man » Tue May 25, 2010 8:52 am

NatureBoy wrote:
Swampthing wrote:...the most faith I ever had in any 1 hunter was John Eberhart.And he lived by SCENTLOCK clothing and highly supported it,to him it was as important as the bow he shot his deer with....

It's true, John really does push Scentlok. He also typically hunts very high, 25' minimum, performs a complete scent reduction routine, and plays the wind whenever possible. You'll notice in his books and DVD's that, although he clearly states his belief in the product, he doesn't claim that it eliminates human scent. He uses words like, "reduce" to describe it. Like Dan always says, you'd have be in a plastic bubble to completely contain all human scent.

Seems like everyone we look up to endorses something, and I believe in John's case, he sincerely believes in the product, just like a lot of guys here...


I just want to point out that even though John uses it and believes it works to some degree, you need to know (and maybe you do) that his son Chris was a ScentLok sales rep. as of a couple years ago. Chris still might be a sales rep. for ScentLok but I don't know that for sure. I think John is also a ScentLok prostaffer. These seem to be reasons enough for the guy to believe in that product.
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby PASwamper » Tue May 25, 2010 2:05 pm

[quote="dan"]
Unfortunately, it seems that whenever you ask a "Pro" his opinion about anything its tuned into some sort of product endorsment that has little to do with facts, and more to do with who is paying his bills.
quote]

Sounds like a bunch of polititians eh? :!:
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby lungbuster » Tue May 25, 2010 6:26 pm

True most outdoor personalities are into selling out to who write the biggest check these days.........I however am not one of them nor will I ever be, the only products I allow to sponsor the show are ones I use and believe in........I've always said scentloc could offer to cover my show for the next ten years and I would turn them down.
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Re: Activated carbon fraud

Unread postby Beauford » Thu May 27, 2010 6:14 am

I used to buy into this not anymore. Think about this watching deer hunting videos the hunters in the ground blind have the carbon suit inside out so the black is showing. This is so the deer don't see them, this goes against everything the fabric was made for. How can it suck up your scent when it is inside out? the carbon fabric (if it did work) would be full of other outside scent. It is not going to be able to soak yours up. SPONSOR is what Dan said, is what the whole industry is about. Watching these same videos the bow hunter does not have sent fabric head cover on, but when they interview them after the shot they have it on and pull it down as if they had it on the whole time. If you watch these same video over and over again you pick up all kinds of things. This group is pushing ameristep? tree stands, I have seen in footage them using Lone Wolf stands. Same goes for CAMO


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