Scent Control Podcast with Dan Infalt & John Eberhart

[dan]

I liked the part about the deer crossing your entrance.

I think I had 18 deer cross my entrance as well and none of them spooked or even stopped. But you saw 3 times as many deer and had the same amount cross your path. That tells me that you have some great entrances!

I try too... I avoid where there going as much as possible. Wind is harder cause a lot of the time you have to hunt on a just off wind. Ideally I like to enter wind to nose and only have one scent stream. But it don't work out that way as often as i wish.

[dan]

Here is what I have for this year from my log.

Wore SL every sit but the 1st sit. My SL is 4 seasons old and I only have the light version. So when it gets cold I wear it under warmer clothes and that is normally rifle season so I don't care as much. Probably not as effective and I sure a big no no for John E.

Keep in mind that NY has 2 zones so rifle is open in the Northern Zone while it is still bow season in the southern zone.

18 sits, 12 on the ground and 6 from a treestand. 68 deer seen, 18 buck sightings, most 1.5 years old, 3 that appeared to be 2.5 years old, and 2 the appeared to be 3.5. Shot a doe with the bow and a 3.5 year old 9 point with the rifle, both deer were upwind.

Very 1st sit was with no SL because I was in a blind with my 5 year old son. Had 3 bucks come by upwind 50 yards no issues. Had a doe come downwind at 20 yards, she spooked (winded) and went back.

3rd sit - on the ground, in a blind with the rifle. Had a doe come through upwind 50 yards no reaction, had a different doe feed for 20 minutes at 60 yards downwind no reaction, she fed off.

4th sit - In a tree with the bow. 2 doe upwind at 20 yards, killed one. Had a 2.5 year old buck upwind feeding at 60 yards. 2 doe downwind at 20 yards, no reaction, they fed away downwind.

5th sit - In a different spot in a tree with the bow. a bunch of bucks and doe upwind no issues. A 1.5 year old buck downwind at 15 yards no response, but he was full rut so I doubt it would matter. A 1.5 and 2.5 year old directly downwind at 20 yards at different times both bucks put their noses in the air and changed directions, neither of them blew out, they just kept going in a different direction.

7th sit - In a different spot in a tree with the bow. Bunch of doe and a small bucks upwind. 1 doe downwind at 60 yards, no reaction.

8th sit - on the ground, in a blind with the rifle. Had a 6 point pass at 20 yards downwind. Nose in the air for a few seconds and kept going the same direction at the same pace. SL underneath.

9th sit - on the ground, in a blind with the rifle. 3 doe and 2 spikes 40 yards, all slightly downwind, 1 spike went directly downwind, no reaction, they kept going the same direction. SL underneath.

10th sit- In a treestand with the rifle. Same spike from above, 40 yards downwind, Stopped and stood for a couple minutes and kept going. SL underneath.

13th sit - In a treesand with the rifle (Southern zone opening day). Had 6 does downwind multiple times at 40 - 60 yards, no response. SL underneath.

14th sit - On the ground still hunting with the rifle. Walked up on 3 doe, deer passed 30 yards downwind, no response. SL underneath rain clothes.

Last sit - On the ground, last day of muzzleloader. 2 does and fawns downwind at 50 yards. Deer winded me for sure and blew out. First deer all season that blew at me! SL underneath.

So I got totally busted 2 times, once without SL. 24 out of 68 deer went downwind, 9 deer showed some reaction, 5 of them blew out (4 in 1 group), the rest kept going.

When I first saw the number of deer (~1/3) that Dan had go downwind it seemed high for playing the wind. However after going through my log I actually have a slightly worse percentage of deer going downwind and I play the wind every sit too.

I finally had a chance to read yours. It seems a little worse than mine, but I would expect worse reactions off the ground. Not really apples to apples when I am usually 12 to 20 feet up. Thanks for posting.

[stash59]

When I first saw the number of deer (~1/3) that Dan had go downwind it seemed high for playing the wind. However after going through my log I actually have a slightly worse percentage of deer going downwind and I play the wind every sit too.

In a lot of cases if you don't shoot them they eventually pass you and end up down wind.

Here is mine from my journal for those who have not seen it:

dan wrote:
I just went thru real quick and put some numbers together. There probably off slightly cause I was going fast and Im tired, but they should be close. I did not count deer pushed on drives. But counted those days as hunted.

66 days hunted this season out of 107 days available to hunt.

20 days hunted with no deer seen.

128 does seen from stand

68 bucks seen from stand

63 deer got down wind / of those 53 showed no reaction, 6 spooked,(spooked means left, snorted, or altered direction) and 4 more showed a slight reaction that was barely noticeable ( most commonly a sniff of the wind, but back to normal travel) Spooked includes distant snorts of unseen deer.

18 deer crossed my entrance trail. / of those 16 showed no reaction, 1 spooked, and one more sniffed then went about its business.

I documented, or can remember travel vs wind on 87 deer. 7 nose to wind / 30 tail to wind / 50 cross wind. -- Honestly, they came out of the bedding the same as always, but I set up for wind to tail or cross wind the most, so thats how I see most travel.

No scent control of any kind other than to play the wind. I even wore my work boots on several hunts. Most of my hunting clothes don't get washed all season, and jackets, coats, and boots never get washed.

I highlighted in yellow what I though was interesting. 53 out of 63 deer that pasted down wind of you little to no reaction. That is 84% wow. I do not experience that when I hunt. My questions are:
1. What are you doing differnt then me to abtain those numbers? My first guess is that I am not high enough.I generally hunt out of preset ladder stands and box blinds.

Its probably "where" your hunting. Reactions seem to vary property to property. It may be based on non-negitive human reactions, or pressure, but I would be speculating. You keep a journal? It would be interesting to see if your speculating. Cause, I thought my numbers were slightly worse until I went thru the journal and added them up. We seem to remember all the negative reactions but forget about the positive ones.

If these are in the same spot year after year they look or when scenting these. They've learned that this is where trouble comes from. So if they smell you when your there. They react to warn other deer in the area. JMHO!

Where as the mobile hunter that rarely sits the same kill spot in a season. Aren't expected to be there, so may get less reaction. Just a thought.

[mnswamphunter]

When I first saw the number of deer (~1/3) that Dan had go downwind it seemed high for playing the wind. However after going through my log I actually have a slightly worse percentage of deer going downwind and I play the wind every sit too.

In a lot of cases if you don't shoot them they eventually pass you and end up down wind.

Here is mine from my journal for those who have not seen it:

dan wrote:
I just went thru real quick and put some numbers together. There probably off slightly cause I was going fast and Im tired, but they should be close. I did not count deer pushed on drives. But counted those days as hunted.

66 days hunted this season out of 107 days available to hunt.

20 days hunted with no deer seen.

128 does seen from stand

68 bucks seen from stand

63 deer got down wind / of those 53 showed no reaction, 6 spooked,(spooked means left, snorted, or altered direction) and 4 more showed a slight reaction that was barely noticeable ( most commonly a sniff of the wind, but back to normal travel) Spooked includes distant snorts of unseen deer.

18 deer crossed my entrance trail. / of those 16 showed no reaction, 1 spooked, and one more sniffed then went about its business.

I documented, or can remember travel vs wind on 87 deer. 7 nose to wind / 30 tail to wind / 50 cross wind. -- Honestly, they came out of the bedding the same as always, but I set up for wind to tail or cross wind the most, so thats how I see most travel.

No scent control of any kind other than to play the wind. I even wore my work boots on several hunts. Most of my hunting clothes don't get washed all season, and jackets, coats, and boots never get washed.

I highlighted in yellow what I though was interesting. 53 out of 63 deer that pasted down wind of you little to no reaction. That is 84% wow. I do not experience that when I hunt. My questions are:
1. What are you doing differnt then me to abtain those numbers? My first guess is that I am not high enough.I generally hunt out of preset ladder stands and box blinds.

Its probably "where" your hunting. Reactions seem to vary property to property. It may be based on non-negitive human reactions, or pressure, but I would be speculating. You keep a journal? It would be interesting to see if your speculating. Cause, I thought my numbers were slightly worse until I went thru the journal and added them up. We seem to remember all the negative reactions but forget about the positive ones.

If these are in the same spot year after year they look or when scenting these. They've learned that this is where trouble comes from. So if they smell you when your there. They react to warn other deer in the area. JMHO!

Where as the mobile hunter that rarely sits the same kill spot in a season. Aren't expected to be there, so may get less reaction. Just a thought.

Yes, thanks for your honest opinion.
Were I hunt we do not have a lot of room to roam to hunt. We have a few stands to hunt. I am not complaining. We are in a good area. I agree we need to be more mobile. I am scouting public land near us. Also, want to hunt in the big woods in northern Minnesota. I have not had good luck in the big woods yet.

On tactic that I use to keep my stands fresh it that I play the wind and change my approach and exist to and from the stand. I also do some ground hunting in less likely places when my best stand has a wrong wind.

[mnswamphunter]

When I first saw the number of deer (~1/3) that Dan had go downwind it seemed high for playing the wind. However after going through my log I actually have a slightly worse percentage of deer going downwind and I play the wind every sit too.

In a lot of cases if you don't shoot them they eventually pass you and end up down wind.

Here is mine from my journal for those who have not seen it:

dan wrote:
I just went thru real quick and put some numbers together. There probably off slightly cause I was going fast and Im tired, but they should be close. I did not count deer pushed on drives. But counted those days as hunted.

66 days hunted this season out of 107 days available to hunt.

20 days hunted with no deer seen.

128 does seen from stand

68 bucks seen from stand

63 deer got down wind / of those 53 showed no reaction, 6 spooked,(spooked means left, snorted, or altered direction) and 4 more showed a slight reaction that was barely noticeable ( most commonly a sniff of the wind, but back to normal travel) Spooked includes distant snorts of unseen deer.

18 deer crossed my entrance trail. / of those 16 showed no reaction, 1 spooked, and one more sniffed then went about its business.

I documented, or can remember travel vs wind on 87 deer. 7 nose to wind / 30 tail to wind / 50 cross wind. -- Honestly, they came out of the bedding the same as always, but I set up for wind to tail or cross wind the most, so thats how I see most travel.

No scent control of any kind other than to play the wind. I even wore my work boots on several hunts. Most of my hunting clothes don't get washed all season, and jackets, coats, and boots never get washed.

I highlighted in yellow what I though was interesting. 53 out of 63 deer that pasted down wind of you little to no reaction. That is 84% wow. I do not experience that when I hunt. My questions are:
1. What are you doing differnt then me to abtain those numbers? My first guess is that I am not high enough. I generally hunt out of preset ladder stands and box blinds.

Its probably "where" your hunting. Reactions seem to vary property to property. It may be based on non-negitive human reactions, or pressure, but I would be speculating. You keep a journal? It would be interesting to see if your speculating. Cause, I thought my numbers were slightly worse until I went thru the journal and added them up. We seem to remember all the negative reactions but forget about the positive ones.

This year, thanks to the beast, I used milk weed to show wind currents and thermals. It opened my eyes. There is a lot going on with the wind. One of my stands the wind that I thought was good for hunting is not very good for some of the deer travel routes. .I am sure I can improve on playing the wind.
I do not have a journal. I am speculating. So, my numbers are not as accurate as yours.
I try to stay out of the woods prior to hunting season. i do not know how much the neighbors are in the woods. I worry that we are hunting our stands too much during the rifle season. I only hand cameras on fridges of the fields.

I was wondering if the deer that do not react to your wind are they sensing you and avoid the stand site in the next days? I think they are.

[ghoasthunter]

over the years I have tried everything scent control I even got to try ozonics for a month straight young does and fawns and 1.5 year old bucks are clueless but take a mature do and she turns inside out and a big buck well he does the tail between the legs slip. I think the ozonics even made some sits worse. I hunt the wind I let the deer pic the wind they want and work around it. one thing i do think helps is the cheep ozone machines you plug in a wall. I put that in a plastic tote and dry wash everything I take into woods. it does not kill everything but it does cut back on odor. it does not help with all deer but I've convinced enough young deer scent checking me to not snort and just slip off. and if I can keep deer from blowing at me so big buck trailing behind is not alerted I'm happy with the results. I think ground scent on entry and exit is the most important even if I don't hunt the same spot. I still don't want the deer using that location for next time. all the time and efforts I spent finding the kings bed I want him their and safe if I push him out I could very likely send him into another hunter. one thing I see people often overlook is how a human lays their scent on the ground. a good percentage of human scent comes from skin cells. you need to layer like a roof of shingles to cut back on odor. when I dress in morning I put on my long johns first then I pull my socks up over them. then tuck your top in your long johns. then pants go on then my sweater gets tucked in then my pants get tucked in my boots that way all your skin cells fall down into your boots. its not removing all scent but it cuts back on it and the less scent on the ground the faster it can wash away.

[dan]

I was wondering if the deer that do not react to your wind are they sensing you and avoid the stand site in the next days? I think they are.

Mostly yes... But there are exceptions. I have had some deer watch me climb my tree and walk over and browser underneath me, usually not mature bucks though. I think lives are short around me on bucks that don't fear humans.

[First Sit]

I think one thing I would point out with this podcast is even though John says he doesn't hunt the wind for scent the wind does play some role in his set up. He typically likes to hunt on the down wind side of destination areas so that deer scent checking down wind will be in range. This somewhat might put his wind out of the deers travel path but also he likes to hunt 25-30 ft high meaning his scent due to wind up that high and thermals might not be at ground level near his stand site.

I personally noticed a difference in the amount of deer that wind me when I'm 25'+ high vs 20' and under. Most of the areas I hunt in the marsh are 20' and under with a few exceptions on trees I'm up higher. Some set ups are like shoulder high just enough so I can stand and shoot over brush. Now I'm not saying that Johns scent control routine isn't working but I think wind and thermals at 25'+ play a part in it as well.

[d_rek]

I find a good deal of enjoyment in trying to figure out the wind/thermals and feel like i've become a better woodsman because of that.

Honestly that's one of the things that really got me paying attention to the wind this year. I wanted to be a better woodsman not better at buying success. I think it's a trap that newer sportsmen fall into (I know I certainly did) whether it be scent control, calling, cover scents, or gear - if you just get this one piece of gear or new piece of tech it's going to make you more successful. As i've matured as a hunter i've learned that deer hunting success is not contingent nor reciprocal to the amount of money you spend on gear. What makes you successful is putting in the work to scout and understanding deer behavior and why they do what they do.

[flinginairos]

I find a good deal of enjoyment in trying to figure out the wind/thermals and feel like i've become a better woodsman because of that.

Honestly that's one of the things that really got me paying attention to the wind this year. I wanted to be a better woodsman not better at buying success. I think it's a trap that newer sportsmen fall into (I know I certainly did) whether it be scent control, calling, cover scents, or gear - if you just get this one piece of gear or new piece of tech it's going to make you more successful. As i've matured as a hunter i've learned that deer hunting success is not contingent nor reciprocal to the amount of money you spend on gear. What makes you successful is putting in the work to scout and understanding deer behavior and why they do what they do.

Absolutely! And it kinda drives me nuts when I see a photo of a guy behind a buck and he has products laying all over it like that stuff was the main reason for success. My boss is a PRIME example of a guy that spends a ton of money trying to buy success in the woods. He has every bait/feeder/attractant/scent/call known to man and doesn’t kill a dang thing. Nothing beats good woodmansship, and it’s free. Just gotta put the work in and be willing to learn!

[ontario farmer]

I find a good deal of enjoyment in trying to figure out the wind/thermals and feel like i've become a better woodsman because of that.

This is my first season trying to figure this thermal stuff out. Hopefully I get better at it. Hunting is hard work but fun work. I see more deer every year so that suggests I am learning.
Buying stuff is a trap for newer hunters. Derek is correct. I have been hunting for just 4 years. Fact is we do have to buy some stuff and we have to figure out what stuff.
I have bought scent lok stuff. It is nice and quiet but does it work for me... I doubt that I am careful enough.
That is why I like learning on this site and saddlehunter.com . - I like to learn. Why knock various hunting methods when we do not know what a persons personality is like or their situation.

Having hired many employees over the years - I think how you hunt is probably related to your personality. I am not a perfectionist... slower, methodical, detail oriented.
So scent lok despite the cost might work for those type of personalities not me.
I want to get it done and am a type A personality. I have to slow down when I hunt but I do prepare and like to scout for months as time allows.
I you are lazy, you will not be mobile, you will bait, you will hunt out of one or two ladder stands and take the atv to it and arrive late and scout 1 day before the opener.
Or if you have absolutely no free time you might do the above. Some people have very limited hunting time because of family pressures and work pressures and even money pressures- they may have to hunt differently.
I do think what ever method you use success in hunting takes work. I know that Finginairos is a hard worker... up at 3 am to go hunting in some challenging terrian suggests a hard worker. A he is successful
So is Dan and so is John.
John does a lot of scouting and preparing of trees ahead of time. That suggests a hard worker. But he loves scent lok and I bet it works for him and people like him.
Dan does the scouting and preparation but I suspect because he has a full time job he has a lot less time for the Eberhardt details . I expect Dan works hard too.

Stuff... I agree with Derek... I have wasted a ton of money of dumb stuff. Just ask my wife. I spent less on stuff this year... a new Kestrel and doyles huntin hoist... some alpaca socks.
Next year I want some of Dan's sticks. More stuff.

[JBL]

I think Dan is a better teacher and has broken his methods down to share with other. Dan focuses on beds and it starts from there. He tells it how HE does it.

John I feel has a ability to kill mature bucks he has honed for himself. He has the intangibles but may not be able to break down the hunt to others as well. Also I believe he keys on the rut stages. He tells it how HE does it.

I believe John is in his mid-late 60s. He doesn't need to change. I think his legacy is pretty much laid out. He has reason to be cocky about mature buck hunting. He knows what he is doing. It works.

I think when Dan speaks about mature bucks he also has a tone that he is very confident in his understanding. I also feel with opening himself up in a public forum has humbled him probably many years ago and he knows how to deal with people and challenges with an open mind..

I enjoyed the podcast. I am looking forward to the next ones.

Well said!

[Josh_S]

over the years I have tried everything scent control I even got to try ozonics for a month straight young does and fawns and 1.5 year old bucks are clueless but take a mature do and she turns inside out and a big buck well he does the tail between the legs slip. I think the ozonics even made some sits worse. I hunt the wind I let the deer pic the wind they want and work around it. one thing i do think helps is the cheep ozone machines you plug in a wall. I put that in a plastic tote and dry wash everything I take into woods. it does not kill everything but it does cut back on odor. it does not help with all deer but I've convinced enough young deer scent checking me to not snort and just slip off. and if I can keep deer from blowing at me so big buck trailing behind is not alerted I'm happy with the results. I think ground scent on entry and exit is the most important even if I don't hunt the same spot. I still don't want the deer using that location for next time. all the time and efforts I spent finding the kings bed I want him their and safe if I push him out I could very likely send him into another hunter. one thing I see people often overlook is how a human lays their scent on the ground. a good percentage of human scent comes from skin cells. you need to layer like a roof of shingles to cut back on odor. when I dress in morning I put on my long johns first then I pull my socks up over them. then tuck your top in your long johns. then pants go on then my sweater gets tucked in then my pants get tucked in my boots that way all your skin cells fall down into your boots. its not removing all scent but it cuts back on it and the less scent on the ground the faster it can wash away.

Good advice. Thanks for sharing this

[tundra]

Well this old guy has read it all...... I have some experience and been lucky a few times,,,,, Here is what I think,,,,, If you believe in it , do it....

Me, I am a non camo believer, just wear natural colors etc, so no expensive clothes, but good quality, and warm when needed.

Its not so much, how you hunt, but where you hunt..........................

As far as deer spooking, I put more emphasis on pressure the animal puts up with, compared to your scent,,,,,,,

simply put, always play the wind,,,, and yes, if you choose not to shoot, of course its going to eventually get into your scent stream, however it will not always spook because of that,,,,,,,

[J.W.83]

I have listened to all 3 parts of the podcast, and read through this entire thread, as well as some other threads linked from here. I’m unconvinced of just how effective scentlok is, if at all, and the process needed to ensure everything is scent-free could give a pill a headache. I agree with Dan that I hope they never find a way to fool a deer’s nose, as it really is in the spirit of hunting to learn how to deal with avoiding detection. I don’t know much about J.E., but in what I’ve heard and read, he comes across as dismissive, at best, and I can’t help but question his motives in the information that he does share. He’s clearly a great hunter, but it was strange that he blew off bedding tactics and wind, and yet, the tactical information that he does share discusses these heavily. I wonder if his hunting success has taken its toll and given him tunnel vision and made him complacent, which would be a shame, as the stand he’s taken on scent control is divisive, and in reality, he would fit right in here otherwise, as was mentioned in this thread. Was definitely an interesting listen.