Scent Control Podcast with Dan Infalt & John Eberhart

[rfickes87]

Would have to agree with most of the previous posts. Followed John for a few years prior to catching onto the hunting beast. I would say while I did gain a lot from John's videos and books the content is nowhere near what Dan has put forth in his dvds and free online. Dan's breakdown of how and why deer do what they do in the various types of habitat he covers is downright amazing, I don't think anyone breaks down bedding, movement patterns and strategy quite as accurately or robustly as the big buck serial killer. I found John was far more focused on pushing scent lok than discussing theory and strategies that have worked for him in the podcast and came across as a hack. Essentially to the point of suggesting u just forget about the wind and wear scent lok. Dan on the other hand ties everything together in a realistic and straight forward fashion that sets up his followers to become far better big buck hunters. You are ignorant if you ignore the wind, as that's largely how mature deer figure out their day. While I do use carbon clothes to reduce my scent I have no illusions about beating a whitetails nose but when bow hunting I feel any advantage can help close the deal. Why John couldn't just get on board with that thought was beyond me but so she goes. And to Dan, please keep doing what you're doing and fighting the good fight. It's so refreshing to find someone so knowledgeable that's not out hocking products or hunting ridiculous managed leases to be successful. Dan you the man!

amen!

[Strenke629]

Someone that was as defensive as John was usually has something to hide...

My guess? ....he gets winded ALL. THE. TIME!

JK, but seriously, I prefer Dan's beast method anyways. It's WAY cheaper and to be honest, it makes you a better hunter. You have no excuses for a busted hunt but yourself. Don't have no suite to blame it on that's for sure. Failure = Success, as long as you learn from it the next time. Option 1: You get busted because of your scentlok wasn't working. Next time, you sit the same spot with the mindset that you fixed your suite. You still get busted. Option 2: You get busted from the wind. Next time you go in you adjust your setup accordingly making sure you don't get busted the same way. You don't get busted and bag a trophy buck. I'd go with option 2.

[SamPotter]

This podcast was like a debate about religion between 2 individuals absolutely convicted of their faith. Neither was going to concede ground to the other, so I'm not exactly sure what I learned from it. Both guys have equal success on equally difficult playing fields. Might as well have had Jared Scheffler in there too to round it out, then there could have been 3 completely different approaches with the same end result. Dead bucks on public land.

While I was disappointed in some of Eberhart's dismissal of other highly successful ways to skin a cat, he still deserves credit for consistently killing mature bucks on what is arguably the most heavily pressured public land in the USA. He is not hunting leases or managed farms. There is no denying that he gets it done where most fail. I also think he truly believes in what he is preaching about scent control and it must be working for him if that is the way he continues to hunt. However, I almost got the sense he owns stock in scent lock with the way he was referring to the people there on a first name basis. Do I want to take scent control to the extreme that he does? No. Too much of a PITA to go quite that far. Has practicing reasonable scent control helped me? Absolutely. Do I hunt the wind? Every time.

There's a lot more to deer smelling a hunter than he either smells you and you're busted or he doesn't. A deer's nose doesn't tell his legs to start running. His nose sends information to his brain, and then he has to evaluate the threat level and then maybe the legs start running. I'm not trying to trick his nose, I'm trying to trick his brain. You can't tell me that there isn't a scent intensity difference between the average Joe just after work in his work attire vs. the same guy having showered with unscented soap, clean clothes washed in unscented soap, and boots that have only ever seen the light of day for hunting.

I get busted when deer get downwind, but less than 10% of the time do they turn inside out and blow out of there. The majority of deer that wind me pause where they are and spend too much time trying to get a better whiff of me, more than enough time for me to get a shot if they are within range. I also can't remember the last time a deer spooked after crossing my entry route. I've seen them notice that something passed through and sniff around with curious interest, but no reaction of alarm.

The bottom line is there are a lot of different hunting techniques and philosophies that hunters subscribe to that end in success. To dismiss another hunter's methods in spite of obvious overwhelming success is cutting off your nose to spite your face. It doesn't matter if your name is Dan, John, or Joe Schmoe. Find what works for you and keep an open mind. Let the scoreboard do the talking.

[Emrah]

Well said, but I think the bigger issue people had with John is his supreme arrogance. So many people have commented on this, not only on this podcast but also other podcasts he's been on. He comes across as holier-than-thou, dismissive of "lesser" beings like Dan, close-minded and supremely unlikeable. Magic suit or no magic suit. He makes me bristle just listening to him.

Emrah

[SamPotter]

Well said, but I think the bigger issue people had with John is his supreme arrogance. So many people have commented on this, not only on this podcast but also other podcasts he's been on. He comes across as holier-than-thou, dismissive of "lesser" beings like Dan, close-minded and supremely unlikeable. Magic suit or no magic suit. He makes me bristle just listening to him.

Emrah

I agree with those observations. Once arrogant ignorance sets in you're done learning and growing. You're all you're ever going to be.

[Mathewshooter]

This podcast was like a debate about religion between 2 individuals absolutely convicted of their faith. Neither was going to concede ground to the other, so I'm not exactly sure what I learned from it. Both guys have equal success on equally difficult playing fields. Might as well have had Jared Scheffler in there too to round it out, then there could have been 3 completely different approaches with the same end result. Dead bucks on public land.

While I was disappointed in some of Eberhart's dismissal of other highly successful ways to skin a cat, he still deserves credit for consistently killing mature bucks on what is arguably the most heavily pressured public land in the USA. He is not hunting leases or managed farms. There is no denying that he gets it done where most fail. I also think he truly believes in what he is preaching about scent control and it must be working for him if that is the way he continues to hunt. However, I almost got the sense he owns stock in scent lock with the way he was referring to the people there on a first name basis. Do I want to take scent control to the extreme that he does? No. Too much of a PITA to go quite that far. Has practicing reasonable scent control helped me? Absolutely. Do I hunt the wind? Every time.

There's a lot more to deer smelling a hunter than he either smells you and you're busted or he doesn't. A deer's nose doesn't tell his legs to start running. His nose sends information to his brain, and then he has to evaluate the threat level and then maybe the legs start running. I'm not trying to trick his nose, I'm trying to trick his brain. You can't tell me that there isn't a scent intensity difference between the average Joe just after work in his work attire vs. the same guy having showered with unscented soap, clean clothes washed in unscented soap, and boots that have only ever seen the light of day for hunting.

I get busted when deer get downwind, but less than 10% of the time do they turn inside out and blow out of there. The majority of deer that wind me pause where they are and spend too much time trying to get a better whiff of me, more than enough time for me to get a shot if they are within range. I also can't remember the last time a deer spooked after crossing my entry route. I've seen them notice that something passed through and sniff around with curious interest, but no reaction of alarm.

The bottom line is there are a lot of different hunting techniques and philosophies that hunters subscribe to that end in success. To dismiss another hunter's methods in spite of obvious overwhelming success is cutting off your nose to spite your face. It doesn't matter if your name is Dan, John, or Joe Schmoe. Find what works for you and keep an open mind. Let the scoreboard do the talking.

My sentiments exactly!

[Boogieman1]

I have the complete opposite thoughts on the subject. I wonder if a man truly believes in the claims that this technology completely eliminates human odor as stated, what satisfaction does on get after killing an animal by using technology to completely remove a animals number 1 survival tool? If they come out with a product next week they causes temporary blindness so the animal just stumbles around, is this must have technology? I think a deers nose is more important than its vision for survival purposes so I don't understand why one would be deemed sporty but not the other. As far as beating a deers brain by making him stop and think how clean u r with a steady stream blasting him in the face. My opinion is it just don't work that way. If I only put deodorant under one arm is that gonna throw him for a loop and make him think providing me a shot? I think not, There nose is a survival instinct it's not a thought process. They just react. And some deer especially the young ones have not built the memory bank to make reactions yet. I compare it to if I stepped outside and someone threw a baseball at me, I don't think about the size of ball or velocity I simply react and get out of harms way. It dosnt matter if it's a baseball, golf ball, or a marble my instincts and reactions happen automatically, no beating my brain with the size at all. Just my opinion

[SamPotter]

I have the complete opposite thoughts on the subject. I wonder if a man truly believes in the claims that this technology completely eliminates human odor as stated, what satisfaction does on get after killing an animal by using technology to completely remove a animals number 1 survival tool? If they come out with a product next week they causes temporary blindness so the animal just stumbles around, is this must have technology? I think a deers nose is more important than its vision for survival purposes so I don't understand why one would be deemed sporty but not the other. As far as beating a deers brain by making him stop and think how clean u r with a steady stream blasting him in the face. My opinion is it just don't work that way. If I only put deodorant under one arm is that gonna throw him for a loop and make him think providing me a shot? I think not, There nose is a survival instinct it's not a thought process. They just react. And some deer especially the young ones have not built the memory bank to make reactions yet. I compare it to if I stepped outside and someone threw a baseball at me, I don't think about the size of ball or velocity I simply react and get out of harms way. It dosnt matter if it's a baseball, golf ball, or a marble my instincts and reactions happen automatically, no beating my brain with the size at all. Just my opinion

I'm not advocating disabling deer. However, the modest/reasonable scent control I practice (it is not putting special deodorant under one arm only though) has bought me opportunities and preserved some spots for future hunts. I've seen deer catch my scent inside 40 yards. Most end up leaving, but not before I could have shot them, and I've only had one deer blow at me all season. Not practicing any scent control certainly works if you use the wind, but it is also an all or nothing proposition. You either get him or you don't and if you don't, you have to hunt somewhere else the next day and that spot is burned for quite a while. Big bucks will still fall, but you have to put on more miles and have a lot more spots scouted out. To each his own, but to say that my way is the only way that works just isn't true.

[dan]

I have the complete opposite thoughts on the subject. I wonder if a man truly believes in the claims that this technology completely eliminates human odor as stated, what satisfaction does on get after killing an animal by using technology to completely remove a animals number 1 survival tool? If they come out with a product next week they causes temporary blindness so the animal just stumbles around, is this must have technology? I think a deers nose is more important than its vision for survival purposes so I don't understand why one would be deemed sporty but not the other. As far as beating a deers brain by making him stop and think how clean u r with a steady stream blasting him in the face. My opinion is it just don't work that way. If I only put deodorant under one arm is that gonna throw him for a loop and make him think providing me a shot? I think not, There nose is a survival instinct it's not a thought process. They just react. And some deer especially the young ones have not built the memory bank to make reactions yet. I compare it to if I stepped outside and someone threw a baseball at me, I don't think about the size of ball or velocity I simply react and get out of harms way. It dosnt matter if it's a baseball, golf ball, or a marble my instincts and reactions happen automatically, no beating my brain with the size at all. Just my opinion

I'm not advocating disabling deer. However, the modest/reasonable scent control I practice (it is not putting special deodorant under one arm only though) has bought me opportunities and preserved some spots for future hunts. I've seen deer catch my scent inside 40 yards. Most end up leaving, but not before I could have shot them, and I've only had one deer blow at me all season. Not practicing any scent control certainly works if you use the wind, but it is also an all or nothing proposition. You either get him or you don't and if you don't, you have to hunt somewhere else the next day and that spot is burned for quite a while. Big bucks will still fall, but you have to put on more miles and have a lot more spots scouted out. To each his own, but to say that my way is the only way that works just isn't true.

I would disagree with your all or nothing comment. There have been plenty of times deer have smelled me, not reacted, and I shot them a day or two later in the same vicinity. You may think I blindly turn my nose up to scent control, but the truth is I hunt with and around a lot of people whom either use it to a low or extreme level, or used too. And the results are the same. Matter of fact, I would say I got busted less. So I pretty much have the same results from deer that scent control people have, so why do it? especially when there is no evidence anywhere that you can fool a deers nose, but plenty that you can't.
I have deer and even good bucks down wind of me all the time, even pressured public bucks, and a lot of the time they show no reaction, like the one I shot this year that after being down wind of me walked right under me and gave me a shot. The only difference that day between me and a person who believes they can fool a deer is that I won't claim that was cause of my scent control.

[Mathewshooter]

I have the complete opposite thoughts on the subject. I wonder if a man truly believes in the claims that this technology completely eliminates human odor as stated, what satisfaction does on get after killing an animal by using technology to completely remove a animals number 1 survival tool? If they come out with a product next week they causes temporary blindness so the animal just stumbles around, is this must have technology? I think a deers nose is more important than its vision for survival purposes so I don't understand why one would be deemed sporty but not the other. As far as beating a deers brain by making him stop and think how clean u r with a steady stream blasting him in the face. My opinion is it just don't work that way. If I only put deodorant under one arm is that gonna throw him for a loop and make him think providing me a shot? I think not, There nose is a survival instinct it's not a thought process. They just react. And some deer especially the young ones have not built the memory bank to make reactions yet. I compare it to if I stepped outside and someone threw a baseball at me, I don't think about the size of ball or velocity I simply react and get out of harms way. It dosnt matter if it's a baseball, golf ball, or a marble my instincts and reactions happen automatically, no beating my brain with the size at all. Just my opinion

I'm not advocating disabling deer. However, the modest/reasonable scent control I practice (it is not putting special deodorant under one arm only though) has bought me opportunities and preserved some spots for future hunts. I've seen deer catch my scent inside 40 yards. Most end up leaving, but not before I could have shot them, and I've only had one deer blow at me all season. Not practicing any scent control certainly works if you use the wind, but it is also an all or nothing proposition. You either get him or you don't and if you don't, you have to hunt somewhere else the next day and that spot is burned for quite a while. Big bucks will still fall, but you have to put on more miles and have a lot more spots scouted out. To each his own, but to say that my way is the only way that works just isn't true.

I would disagree with your all or nothing comment. There have been plenty of times deer have smelled me, not reacted, and I shot them a day or two later in the same vicinity. You may think I blindly turn my nose up to scent control, but the truth is I hunt with and around a lot of people whom either use it to a low or extreme level, or used too. And the results are the same. Matter of fact, I would say I got busted less. So I pretty much have the same results from deer that scent control people have, so why do it? especially when there is no evidence anywhere that you can fool a deers nose, but plenty that you can't.
I have deer and even good bucks down wind of me all the time, even pressured public bucks, and a lot of the time they show no reaction, like the one I shot this year that after being down wind of me walked right under me and gave me a shot. The only difference that day between me and a person who believes they can fool a deer is that I won't claim that was cause of my scent control.

I have had the exact opposite experience myself. I used to try to hunt the wind and not really do anything to try to control my scent. I had never shot a big buck doing this and got busted constantly. The wind swirls a lot around here. When the deer did bust me or my entry trail they would come unglued.....stomping and snorting most of the times. About 20 years ago, I got into the scent control thing. Since then I have a bunch of good bucks on my wall, including a 161 inch 15 point that I shot on public land in NY. I also see way more good bucks than I used to, and I hunt exclusively on public land as opposed to the private land I was hunting 20+ years ago. I never have deer pick off my entry/exit trail anymore. I do get winded on occasion but its far less than before scent control and the deer dont turn inside out. As a matter of fact, they dont even snort or stomp....just kinda turn around and go back the way they came. I also hunt with guys who dont do anything to control their scent and they're not even close to as successful on the public land we hunt. It may all be coincidence....but if its working, dont change it up. I would never tell anyone that you have to do it like I do.... but I also wouldnt say its a waste of my time.

[dan]

About the time you started using scent control, is probably about the time you got serious about hunting big deer. Less mistakes = less getting busted. Even if it did make a difference, it would not be my cup of tea. It takes away the whole thing that makes hunting deer a challenge. They are coming real close with Ozonics and such, and personally, I hope they never make hunting deer as easy as putting on a magic suit. It would take the fun out of it and make accomplishments not so big a deal.

[SamPotter]

About the time you started using scent control, is probably about the time you got serious about hunting big deer. Less mistakes = less getting busted. Even if it did make a difference, it would not be my cup of tea. It takes away the whole thing that makes hunting deer a challenge. They are coming real close with Ozonics and such, and personally, I hope they never make hunting deer as easy as putting on a magic suit. It would take the fun out of it and make accomplishments not so big a deal.

This is fair. It's impossible to rule out variables in a hunting situation that can't be attributed to whether a deer actually smelled you or not.

At the end of the day, all of our observations are anecdotal and certainly have no scientific significance, and a lot of times we see the result we want to see. Even the "scientific studies" referred to in the podcast have to be taken with a grain of salt. I spent 2 years at the Michigan State dairy farm as a student employee and another 10 years on a dairy farm in NY that performed privately funded feed additive research. There were two things I learned very quickly; even under the premise of doing scientific research, mistakes are made by the people conducting the experiment, and when the research is all said and done, if the results are not what the entity that commissioned the research wanted, there's no law that says the results have to be published. It just gets swept under the rug and they repeat a study several times until they are convinced their hypothesis was wrong or they get the results they want.

Even with his arrogance, it is hard to deny that John Eberhart is the OG of killing mature bucks on public land, especially when you take into account where he has been doing it. He is either the biggest sellout ever or his extreme scent control routine actually works for him. Taking it that far is too much of a PITA for my taste, but I'm not going to say it won't work because I've never done it and I have $10 that says there's nobody commenting on this thread that has either. You show me your "head cover with drop down face mask" and I'll shake your hand and put $10 in it.

[dan]

About the time you started using scent control, is probably about the time you got serious about hunting big deer. Less mistakes = less getting busted. Even if it did make a difference, it would not be my cup of tea. It takes away the whole thing that makes hunting deer a challenge. They are coming real close with Ozonics and such, and personally, I hope they never make hunting deer as easy as putting on a magic suit. It would take the fun out of it and make accomplishments not so big a deal.

This is fair. It's impossible to rule out variables in a hunting situation that can't be attributed to whether a deer actually smelled you or not.

At the end of the day, all of our observations are anecdotal and certainly have no scientific significance, and a lot of times we see the result we want to see. Even the "scientific studies" referred to in the podcast have to be taken with a grain of salt. I spent 2 years at the Michigan State dairy farm as a student employee and another 10 years on a dairy farm in NY that performed privately funded feed additive research. There were two things I learned very quickly; even under the premise of doing scientific research, mistakes are made by the people conducting the experiment, and when the research is all said and done, if the results are not what the entity that commissioned the research wanted, there's no law that says the results have to be published. It just gets swept under the rug and they repeat a study several times until they are convinced their hypothesis was wrong or they get the results they want.

Even with his arrogance, it is hard to deny that John Eberhart is the OG of killing mature bucks on public land, especially when you take into account where he has been doing it. He is either the biggest sellout ever or his extreme scent control routine actually works for him. Taking it that far is too much of a PITA for my taste, but I'm not going to say it won't work because I've never done it and I have $10 that says there's nobody commenting on this thread that has either. You show me your "head cover with drop down face mask" and I'll shake your hand and put $10 in it.

I mostly agree... Thats why I tend not to trust funded studies, I have seen that before. Like Wisconsin firing a researcher cause her study found the opposite finding they wanted in regards to CWD. However, the tests done by Myth busters, were done by guys who did not care either way how it went, And if Field and stream did a test, or even published the results of a test, it would be more in there interest to find scent control working flawlessly. This is simply because they have pressure from advertisers. You better believe they had backlash for what they put in print and I tip my hat to them for putting it out there. We also get cut off of a lot of studies and tests done because the scent control manufactures threaten to sue anyone showing negative results. Thats why a lot of video's and shows have been taken down from public viewing. The big picture that is obvious to most people is every independent test, even going to the degree John does while hunting, fails to stop the dog from smelling or knowing where the person was or traveled. I would like to see more testing to look at results cause I am seeing trends that are interesting. Like the fact that in every test I have ever watched or looked at the results of where a dirty sweaty guy went up against a clean dry scent control guy, the sweaty guy is "harder" for the dog to find... I even know plenty of scent control advocates that question why.

One would think the sweaty guy would either be found faster or randomly the same as the clean guy. I have to wonder if its that a clean dry body sheds skin cells into the air stream better than an oily body. Or maybe its some other reason, but we will never get to the answer for two reasons. #1 it takes funding to do tests, and who would fund it? #2 the scent control industry would do anything to stop such studies.

Bottom line is, if I am wrong, and you can use activated charcoal to lessen your scent enough to fool a deer, it is such a minuscule difference based on people I know using it and not using it, that the difference would not be worth the pain. I doubt it could make a difference in the outcome for almost all hunters.

As far as me dismissing Johns success using scent control, yes, I suppose I do, cause when tests show that using scent control to his degree don't make a difference, I could "maybe" believe a claim that he only gets winded a few times, but to put in print that he has never been busted ever in 18 years since the day he started using scent control makes me question everything he says. Do you believe that? If not how do you believe anything he says? I was floored when I read that in Deer and deer hunting magazine. He also says he is a public land hunter, but from what I have been reading only a few of his deer came from public land, most are killed on many different private pieces he has gained access to. Not that I care about where he shoots his deer, but there is a big difference between shooting big bucks on private land, and shooting big bucks on public. Not only are the deer smarter and more seasoned on public, your also limited on crops, apples orchards, cutting limbs, leaving stands, etc... There is a reason Drury's, Andrea, and others all have private land.

How about his claim that walking a dog down wind of boxes that have a guy who came in from the opposite direction can't work cause they were not repelled from 500 feet up by a helicopter?

I think John is a good hunter, and people would benefit a lot more, and like him a lot more, by hearing his tactics rather than hearing every time he speaks that the only thing that matters is if you buy a magic suit.

[Mathewshooter]

About the time you started using scent control, is probably about the time you got serious about hunting big deer. Less mistakes = less getting busted. Even if it did make a difference, it would not be my cup of tea. It takes away the whole thing that makes hunting deer a challenge. They are coming real close with Ozonics and such, and personally, I hope they never make hunting deer as easy as putting on a magic suit. It would take the fun out of it and make accomplishments not so big a deal.

You're exactly right about less mistakes=less getting busted. The less mistakes I was making were scent related. I consider the deer I've shot to be just as much an accomplishment as anyone elses....especially where I've shot them. For anyone to say that deer shot using scent control arent as much of an accomplishment is just not on point. That would be like saying deer shot playing the wind arent that much of an accomplishment because the deer was at a disadvantage. Thats the whole point....giving yourself the advantage over the deer. The suit isnt magic but every bit helps. To each their own.

[dan]

About the time you started using scent control, is probably about the time you got serious about hunting big deer. Less mistakes = less getting busted. Even if it did make a difference, it would not be my cup of tea. It takes away the whole thing that makes hunting deer a challenge. They are coming real close with Ozonics and such, and personally, I hope they never make hunting deer as easy as putting on a magic suit. It would take the fun out of it and make accomplishments not so big a deal.

You're exactly right about less mistakes=less getting busted. The less mistakes I was making were scent related. I consider the deer I've shot to be just as much an accomplishment as anyone elses....especially where I've shot them. For anyone to say that deer shot using scent control arent as much of an accomplishment is just not on point. That would be like saying deer shot playing the wind arent that much of an accomplishment because the deer was at a disadvantage. Thats the whole point....giving yourself the advantage over the deer. The suit isnt magic but every bit helps. To each their own.

If you could remove all your scent, yes, it would be less of an accomplisment than not removing all your scent... If they legalized shooting deer with machine guns out of an helicoptor would it not be easier than hunting from a treestand?

I can tell you for fact, that if I could become completely scent free like John claims to be I could walk up to bedded big bucks and shoot them in there beds on a very regular basis. I can move quiet, I know where there looking, and if scent was not an option, just shoot em where they lay... If you think being able to set up, and hunt up wind of deer is not an advantage, your mistaken, and it makes me wonder why you would do it if it don't benafit you? It would be like me saying the deer I shoot with my compound is as much an accomplishment as the ones guys shoot with recurves... Or that my rifle kills are just as much an accomplishment.

Think what you want, but I believe removing scent from the equation would make hunting to easy. I personally like the challenge.