Should this count??

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Stanley
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Re: Should this count??

Unread postby Stanley » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:26 am

stash59 wrote:B&C originally started the record keeping program as a means to indicate the health of a huntable species. Animals reaching the required scores indicated the area the animal was taken in. Was providing a healthy environment. For said animal and the species as a whole. It was more about the animal/s. Not the hunter. That's kinda changed over the years. And been blown way out of whack.

Though Pope & Young was kinda cool. It's always been more about the hunter. "Look at what I did with a shorter range weapon."

The state record keeping organizations are kinda the same. "Hey look at all the record book animals we have had harvested."

When I was younger getting an animal to put in the records books was what I thought was important. So I could pump my own chest. Now days, sure I would love to kill an old mature animal. But it making the "books" or putting one in a "book" isn't what's important. My ego will still brag a little about it to friends, family, fellow Beasts. But not the whole world.

Although a if I ever did kill a new B&C record breaking animal. I would enter that. Because I feel an extra special animal like that would deserve the respect and recognition for it's uniqueness. And should be shared with the hunting community. For everyone to enjoy! But the emphasis should be on the animal not the lucky fact that I was the one that got it.

As far as the above animal. If that's how PA wants to handle it fine. I'll make my own judgements on the details.


I think most of us lost a little blood in that war. I put 5 or 6 in the books I don't even remember (over 25 years ago). I haven't put any in since then. Once you step into a bathtub of hot water. You find out it really doesn't feel that hot. :think: I guess where do you draw the line on how long a recovery takes? One day, one week, one year? Who establishes the length of recovery time to call it yours? I have left many bucks over night (did so this year in fact). I killed a buck in 1998 and didn't recover it until one year later. I tagged (salvage) and hung the buck on my wall because I did kill it, just couldn't find it. I did not enter it into any books though.


You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Should this count??

Unread postby mauser06 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:32 am

I saw that story yesterday.


Happy for him he found it. I don't doubt the story is legit...


But I don't agree it should be holding the state record as a bow kill.


Trail cam pics and a friend knowing you are hunting a big buck?

He missed a 10 point earlier in the season. So there goes "that was the buck I was hunting".

There is just no proof that he killed it. No proof it died from his shot.

Tough break for the hunter. Most all of us have been there. It happens. Most of us try to minimize that by not forcing shots like that. The shot raises question. Had the lighted nock truly disappeared with that shot, you'd think that would meant it went right into the chest. You'd think it would have died a lot quicker. I know at one point he said he was 1200yds from the shot when he lost sign. You'd be looking at a lung and liver and maybe gut. That deer ain't going so far with 28" or so of it cut up. Just theoretically saying...since he DID say the nock disappeared.


Even if he had his arrow covered in DANA and it matched...there's just no telling what happened to that buck in those 41 days. He may have grazed the brisket and it was never fatal. A tree fell on it. Lightning struck it. It fell down a cliff in the dark. Another hunter stuck it and lost it. A car hit it and it hobbled off to die. Coyotes or infection. Lots of stuff could have killed it.


Just leaves too many questions to warrant it's entry IMO. I feel bad for the hunter. I wouldn't wanna be him. After recovering the buck, he gets entered and then the truth comes out... haven't looked but don't know where it's stand as a dead head.

Even on video, I don't know that it changes anything other than you could say he did shot the deer...what happened over those 41 days??

I agree, it's tough to put a "time" on where to draw the line. That part is tough..
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ghoasthunter
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Re: Should this count??

Unread postby ghoasthunter » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:12 pm

I think it should only count if its still food that is a dead head nothing more and makes a bad name for hunting. if we depict ourselves as just trophy hunters their will be no hunting.
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Re: Should this count??

Unread postby Mathewshooter » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:17 pm

comeback_kid wrote:
Southern Man wrote:I didn't read the whole story but can he prove he killed it?

Yes he absolutely can....Because he has trail cam pics of the buck! :lol: :lol: :lol:

If I had a "kill" for every buck I got on trail cam....

I don't doubt he killed the buck, but it seems Pennsylvania's desire to prove they can produce big bucks has blinded them to a few issues.

Additionally, did anyone else notice this was a very suspect shot? "" Ron recalled. “At 32 yards the buck looked over his left shoulder, exposing his right shoulder and neck. That would be my only chance, so I let him have it where the shoulder meets the neck and I watched the green Lumenok disappear into him.”

Again, I am happy for the guy, but when's the last time you on purpose shot a deer in front of the shoulder where it meets the neck?


I had a 15 yard shot at a big 10 point this fall that was facing directly at me and passed it up. You owe it to the animal to take good killing shots. Everyone makes a bad shot now and then but if you purposely take a bad shot...shame on you. That deer probably suffered for a while before dying.
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Re: Should this count??

Unread postby Swampbuck » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:51 pm

Who cares... if he's happy on the recovery I'm good on it.
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Re: Should this count??

Unread postby Swampbuck » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:33 pm

Swampbuck wrote:Who cares... if he's happy on the recovery I'm good on it.
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Re: Should this count??

Unread postby matt1336 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:13 pm

ghoasthunter wrote:
matt1336 wrote:I don’t think so. If another buck would have given him a shot later in the season he’d have shot it. Would he have just walked past the rack if this buck because he didn’t have a tag for it? Whatever don’t take a quartering to shot with a rage.

don't take marginal shots to begin with. I hate all rage broadheads except the 125g hyperdermic plus P with a 590 grain arrow plus head combo then they don't deflect much and go right threw. I lost a 130 glass 8 point to the aluminum head tear drop blade tip ones right in elbow and out the bottom of brisket never made it threw.



The quartering to shot isn’t marginal if you know what you’re doing. It’s gota be a close shot. It sounds like the arrow flinger shot that deer at quite a bit farther range. I’ve killed several that way and saw them all die from the stand. I wouldn’t take that shot with a huge cutting diameter broadhead with flimsy blades. But that’s another topic for another day.
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Re: Should this count??

Unread postby vtbuck » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:49 pm

Smells like fish.
If you hit a buck with your truck that huge you don’t get it put in the record books. Why would a carcass you find count. No video of the Hunt makes it hard to believe plus his shot placement isn’t ethical imo.
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Re: Should this count??

Unread postby ghoasthunter » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:02 am

matt1336 wrote:
ghoasthunter wrote:
matt1336 wrote:I don’t think so. If another buck would have given him a shot later in the season he’d have shot it. Would he have just walked past the rack if this buck because he didn’t have a tag for it? Whatever don’t take a quartering to shot with a rage.

don't take marginal shots to begin with. I hate all rage broadheads except the 125g hyperdermic plus P with a 590 grain arrow plus head combo then they don't deflect much and go right threw. I lost a 130 glass 8 point to the aluminum head tear drop blade tip ones right in elbow and out the bottom of brisket never made it threw.



The quartering to shot isn’t marginal if you know what you’re doing. It’s gota be a close shot. It sounds like the arrow flinger shot that deer at quite a bit farther range. I’ve killed several that way and saw them all die from the stand. I wouldn’t take that shot with a huge cutting diameter broadhead with flimsy blades. But that’s another topic for another day.

I agree with you their I've taken frontal shots that's way more controversial but my bow can handle it and I shoot at extended ranges year round. I sill set my stands in that 20 yard pocket but am not afraid to shot farther I use the all steal hyper dermic plus P on my compound and zewiki on my long bow. I see a good thread on shot angles and expectable ranges in near future.
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ghoasthunter
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Re: Should this count??

Unread postby ghoasthunter » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:06 am

vtbuck wrote:Smells like fish.
If you hit a buck with your truck that huge you don’t get it put in the record books. Why would a carcass you find count. No video of the Hunt makes it hard to believe plus his shot placement isn’t ethical imo.

yea its starting to sound like it was poached. I have some real good dead heads I should put in NJ program hey whos too know I could put it in any state LOL :doh:
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Re: Should this count??

Unread postby First Sit » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:28 am

I don't think it should count if found 41 days later! For all anyone knows he didn't shoot it just found it. But what do I know my home state accepts all sorts of things for records that a ridiculous, our steelhead record was snagged in the river on purpose with multiple witnessess, our lake trout record was taken in another states waters but since they left the port of my home state my home state accepted it worst thing is they originally lied about where they caught it then told the truth and still accepted it :shock: . Worst thing is they denied the new state record walleye because it was taken in closed waters which the angler wasn't aware of at the time and they offered the guy a chance to lie about it and even hinted that it wouldn't count unless he did and wanted him to verify thats where he got it multiple times, he was honest every time and they didn't count it.

It seems a lot of places are just happy to have a new record and don't care if its by the books and legit.

Wonder if they make you take a poly graph for new state record deer, if not they should.
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Re: Should this count??

Unread postby Kraftd » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:32 am

Swampbuck wrote:Who cares... if he's happy on the recovery I'm good on it.


Feel the same way. Glad he kept at it. Hard to tell, but the article doesn't make it sound like the guy was pressing hard for this. He was honest about the situation, their state club concurred, doesn't matter a lick to me. No ill will towards the hunter, doeesn't seem like he was trying to hide anything, and sounds like he put in a lot of effort. Good for him.

Not a record book guy either. No need to have my name in small print for strangers to see. State or World Record is different than a 140-150 I suppose, but still not too interested in the books.
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Re: Should this count??

Unread postby matt1336 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:15 pm

ghoasthunter wrote:
matt1336 wrote:
ghoasthunter wrote:
matt1336 wrote:I don’t think so. If another buck would have given him a shot later in the season he’d have shot it. Would he have just walked past the rack if this buck because he didn’t have a tag for it? Whatever don’t take a quartering to shot with a rage.

don't take marginal shots to begin with. I hate all rage broadheads except the 125g hyperdermic plus P with a 590 grain arrow plus head combo then they don't deflect much and go right threw. I lost a 130 glass 8 point to the aluminum head tear drop blade tip ones right in elbow and out the bottom of brisket never made it threw.



The quartering to shot isn’t marginal if you know what you’re doing. It’s gota be a close shot. It sounds like the arrow flinger shot that deer at quite a bit farther range. I’ve killed several that way and saw them all die from the stand. I wouldn’t take that shot with a huge cutting diameter broadhead with flimsy blades. But that’s another topic for another day.

I agree with you their I've taken frontal shots that's way more controversial but my bow can handle it and I shoot at extended ranges year round. I sill set my stands in that 20 yard pocket but am not afraid to shot farther I use the all steal hyper dermic plus P on my compound and zewiki on my long bow. I see a good thread on shot angles and expectable ranges in near future.



That thread has happened already- several times
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ghoasthunter
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Re: Should this count??

Unread postby ghoasthunter » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:27 pm

matt1336 wrote:
ghoasthunter wrote:
matt1336 wrote:
ghoasthunter wrote:
matt1336 wrote:I don’t think so. If another buck would have given him a shot later in the season he’d have shot it. Would he have just walked past the rack if this buck because he didn’t have a tag for it? Whatever don’t take a quartering to shot with a rage.

don't take marginal shots to begin with. I hate all rage broadheads except the 125g hyperdermic plus P with a 590 grain arrow plus head combo then they don't deflect much and go right threw. I lost a 130 glass 8 point to the aluminum head tear drop blade tip ones right in elbow and out the bottom of brisket never made it threw.



The quartering to shot isn’t marginal if you know what you’re doing. It’s gota be a close shot. It sounds like the arrow flinger shot that deer at quite a bit farther range. I’ve killed several that way and saw them all die from the stand. I wouldn’t take that shot with a huge cutting diameter broadhead with flimsy blades. But that’s another topic for another day.

I agree with you their I've taken frontal shots that's way more controversial but my bow can handle it and I shoot at extended ranges year round. I sill set my stands in that 20 yard pocket but am not afraid to shot farther I use the all steal hyper dermic plus P on my compound and zewiki on my long bow. I see a good thread on shot angles and expectable ranges in near future.



That thread has happened already- several times
I'm not sure if I even want to look thems fighting words their lol :naughty:
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