Wisconsin crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow harvest

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Re: Wisconsin crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow harvest

Unread postby Dan T » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:05 pm

I’m always try to stay open minded and respect that any issue can be constructively didcussed from many view points and direction, not just a two sided finger pointing debate. This site has some of the best info in one place I’ve seen and have always like it for that reason and the fact that historically you could put your money on the fact that there will be some great constructive discussion under the title of and thread topic. I don’t know if it has to do with the site growing or if it’s post deer season blues, but lately it seems there has been a lot of critics and criticism. My house needs a roof this spring and what I’ve been reading makes me want to put the compressor and nail gun way, and hand nail all of those shingles. Who cares what anyone else is doing, do what makes you happy, how it makes you happy and where you enjoy it. Be yourself and let others be themselves. My biggest pet peeve with anything is when someone down plays another to up play themselves. I’ve always admired this forum for its modesty and ability to stay on track and accept or constructively discussed regardless of biases. I’ve also been seeing a bit of what I call humble bragging or cocky modest, a fishing example of that expression...”caught an ok trout today, don’t know what it measures, don’t real care...but the net is 20” and I caught it on a dry fly, Incase your wondering, smallest one today...just say’n” I used a fishing example cause I’m not singling anyone out. I hope this period of hyper criticism on the beast that we’ve been reading lately passes by quickly.


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tibolli
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Re: Wisconsin crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow harvest

Unread postby tibolli » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:28 pm

burkhart wrote:I’m trying wrap my Head around everyone’s logic.

I use a crossbow now. A 130 pound youth model similar to Jeff g and chuck.

I made this choose simply because I don’t have the time to invest into shooting a vertical bow anymore. I look at it as understanding your position in life and where your free time and effort should go. While trying to be more responsible to the game I hunt and maximizing my chances I have afield I’ve somehow infringed on you because I use a crossbow.

So I ask what’s worse for our sport a accurate crossbow shooter or a guy shooting a vertical bow with little/no practice? If I’m “archery” hunting why does the weapon matter?? I equate this to something similar to gun season and hunters who use different calibers or shotguns or muzzleloaders. People dont get up in arms because I shoot a muzzleloader in the “shotgun” season both are allowed. Effective ranges are similar on both weapons. Both firearms have the ability to have optics...same as the archery equipment in question.

If your agreement is “it can be locked at the ready” so can any vertical bow:
http://www.bowhuntingoutlet.com/bow-acc ... gKxxfD_BwE

If the law allows and harvest numbers show a more successful rate of hunting why be against it?

This topic is similar to politics and scent control lines are drawn and no one is going to introduce new info to the subject to drastically change anyone’s mind on where they stand. All these threads do Is divide a already dieing sport simply because ideals are different does not make any sense to me.


"If your agreement is “it can be locked at the ready” so can any vertical bow: " Thank goodness the ability to hunt with a locked vertical bow is not legal in any of the states that I hunt.

Another point, Pope and Young does not recognize crossbow harvests into their records.
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Re: Wisconsin crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow harvest

Unread postby Jeff G » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:55 pm

Yup, I use a crossbow and have also killed deer with a reg bow. Available time is my problem at the moment. I bought mine so my 12 year old son could hunt with it. I started using it when time got tight and I could not practice enough with my reg bow.

I don't care if my bucks are in a book, I am not out for that. I'm out to kill a buck at point blank range in a bed.

Dan and I had a conversation during late season. we both agreed that a crossbow would increase our chances at killing when in brutal weather conditions. It's hard to argue that if the crossbow made us better more efficient killers in those conditions, that it would be hard not to use it.

I passed many deer with my crossbow this year. I ate the tag....
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Re: Wisconsin crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow harvest

Unread postby mspaci » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:00 pm

I seriously considering an xbow. I just dont have the time like years ago. Mike
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Re: Wisconsin crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow harvest

Unread postby Horizontal Hunter » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:19 pm

stash59 wrote:It's all part of the times we're in. Bet ya alot of those xbow kills are coming from shooting houses over food plots. That they can drive a vehicle or 4 wheeler within 100 or less yards.

I can't shoot the weight minimum of 30 lbs. for a vertical bow, but would gladly go to the doc and do all the paperwork for the required disability permit.

States say it's done for hunter recruitment but the numbers aren't increasing. If they're trying to target kids. Put a maximum age on xbow use.


In my state you can get a crossbow permit if you are permanently disabled and that is great. The problem that comes up is the ones that don't have a permanent disability. Someone with a temporary disability like a rotator cuff surgery in August ends up sitting on the couch for the season when they could be in the woods with a crossbow.

There needs to be a provision for them as well.

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Re: Wisconsin crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow harvest

Unread postby Boogieman1 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:36 pm

I would have zero issues with Xbows in archery season if they simply would have said this is it no more! We are allowing these in for kids, disabled, hunters who don't have time to practice, hunters who simply can't get it done with a vertical bow, increasing hunter participation, weapon for severe cold weather etc... Now there is a weapon for anyone who chooses to hunt archery so there should be no more push for more gadgets. However that is not the case. The Xbow is just a gateway for more to come. There will evidentially be something else because the Xbow is just to hard for some so we need something easier and the process and bickering will repeat.
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Re: Wisconsin crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow harvest

Unread postby mipubbucks24 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:30 pm

I purchased a cheep crossbow this year because I had a shoulder injury and would not have bow hunted if I didn’t get one, and I’m not really a gun hunter. Its much easier to kill deer on the ground with a cross bow. My dad has been using a crossbow for years now, he is the opposite of a hunting beast when it comes to killing deer, and bucks. I am thankful that Michigan passed the law some years ago because it got him back in the woods. It’s still hard to kill a Mature buck on pressured land in Michigan. I only saw 2 deer 2.5 or older on public this year. Saw a lot of 1.5s. I really don’t care if people use them, but people need to take realistic shots and not try to shoot 70-80 yards or more. Some bows will shoot that far but not the one I bought, mine would drop like a rock after 40 yards.
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Re: Wisconsin crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow harvest

Unread postby cougar » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:36 am

the guys arguing for introducing the sport to more people to keep our heritage strong while at the same time bemoaning more xbow hunters out during archery seasons / higher kill rates / more pressure are contradicting themselves no?

at the extreme, the best hunting would be access to great land, lots of deer and only one hunter... the worst would be poor/no land, low deer per sq mile, and tons of hunters. We have a human population size where hunters cannot possibly grow to be a majority at the voting booth (nationwide) without the quality of hunting seriously declining.

so philosophically you have to pick one, no? more opportunities for you ( and close fam, kids etc) or more people involved in the sport overall. Maybe this is more evident in New England where the huntable land is in great decline because of urban sprawl.
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Re: Wisconsin crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow harvest

Unread postby fishlips » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:54 am

It's interesting and caught on quicker than I expected. That said total license sales are down in WI and the total kill is down to probably half what it was early 2000s and late 90s. There are bigger issues than what type of bow hunters use during archery season.
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Re: Wisconsin crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow harvest

Unread postby Swampbuck » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:18 pm

fishlips wrote:It's interesting and caught on quicker than I expected. That said total license sales are down in WI and the total kill is down to probably half what it was early 2000s and late 90s. There are bigger issues than what type of bow hunters use during archery season.


If that's the case than I don't see what the problem is. Other than people just grandstanding on using thier bow. A crossbow is way easier to use than a bow, no way to argue against that, and if pressure is an ussue they should have different seasons. If it's not an issue than it shouldn't really matter. The hunter using the harder weapon should have some type of advantage in seasons unless pressure isn't an issue. It does surprise me though that some states are allowing them. Guess it boils down to license sales
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Re: Wisconsin crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow harvest

Unread postby fishlips » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:19 pm

I don't see this as a huge influx of hardcore xbow hunters invading the woods and putting a ton of pressure on the deer. I suspect there are a number of guys who were previously gun hunters only who picked up a xbow to be able to hunt in better weather and during the rut. That said I only have anecdotal stories to base that off of and no hard data.

I am just far more troubled by the decline in license sales. the selfish part of me is excited but I don't think that is good for the whole. i don't know how that trend reverses.
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Re: Wisconsin crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow harvest

Unread postby tgreeno » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:41 pm

fishlips wrote:I don't see this as a huge influx of hardcore xbow hunters invading the woods and putting a ton of pressure on the deer. I suspect there are a number of guys who were previously gun hunters only who picked up a xbow to be able to hunt in better weather and during the rut. That said I only have anecdotal stories to base that off of and no hard data.

I am just far more troubled by the decline in license sales. the selfish part of me is excited but I don't think that is good for the whole. i don't know how that trend reverses.


Thinking back this season. I only remember seeing 1 guy with a crossbow this season. I'm guessing there are alot of private land guys shooting out of ladder stands and enclosed blinds.
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Re: Wisconsin crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow harvest

Unread postby Rob loper » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:51 pm

ghoasthunter wrote:
hunter_mike wrote:82,660 X-bow Hunters kill 47,086 deer = 57% Success Rate
152,186 Bow Hunters kill 45,034 deer = 30% Success Rate

Regardless of opinions, thats what I take out of that article.
wow NJ had 49246 kills last year but only a 1000 were killed in the zones I hunt which holds about 120000 acers of public land all our deer are down in the urban areas


Having just moved from new jersey. To delaware
Imo New Jersey is gonna keep dropping the hunting liscences and xtra fees to hunt zones weapons etc are just crazy. Last year my last NJ hunting season i spent almost 300$ in liscences and permits to hung different zones weapons and buck tags. And extended bow was once again in certain zones cut buy 3 weeks
I just dont think nj is too greedy to have good balance of deer or any kind of mature buck program. The 3 point on one side rule there is an absolute joke
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Re: Wisconsin crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow harvest

Unread postby Josh_S » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:21 am

tibolli wrote:
Dewey wrote:
tibolli wrote:I'm disappointed to read this news.

For first time, Wisconsin crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow harvest

Crossbow kill passed up the vertical bow kill back on Nov. 4th already. I'll be honest.......I really hate to see this. Feels like our archery season will never be the same again. I worry about the future of the WI archery season and can't help but think the season will eventually be shortened as more and more hunt with crossbow and drastically increase the deer kill to a point that's just not sustainable with the current framework. Pretty soon we might just have one short "Deer Season" with any weapon allowed. Nothing would surprise me anymore.


I agree! A vertical bow must be drawn in the presence of game which can and does make a big difference. A crossbow is already locked, loaded and ready to go. It seems only crossbow hunters say, "I don't see the difference between a compound and a crossbow." There is a big difference, especially in the skill required to use a vertical bow.


I occasionally hunt with a guy who switched from compound to crossbow, the reason being lack of time to practice due to work travel. I never even brought up the subject, he just brought it up one day and said it's much easier to kill deer. The guy is one heck of a hunter, he can get on big bucks and has done very well with the vertical bow. The crossbow pretty much brings his kill rate up to 100%...increases yardage, accuracy, speed, and getting busted drawing or trying to hold a drawn bow is non-existent...with no bad hits or misses. So it is clearly an advantage, I don't think anybody can argue that point. But so is a compound vs trad bow. As long as it is legal and fewer deer are wounded from those who may not be as efficient with vertical bow I'm all for it.
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Re: Wisconsin crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow harvest

Unread postby stash59 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:22 am

burkhart wrote:I’m trying wrap my Head around everyone’s logic.

I use a crossbow now. A 130 pound youth model similar to Jeff g and chuck.

I made this choose simply because I don’t have the time to invest into shooting a vertical bow anymore. I look at it as understanding your position in life and where your free time and effort should go. While trying to be more responsible to the game I hunt and maximizing my chances I have afield I’ve somehow infringed on you because I use a crossbow.

So I ask what’s worse for our sport a accurate crossbow shooter or a guy shooting a vertical bow with little/no practice? If I’m “archery” hunting why does the weapon matter?? I equate this to something similar to gun season and hunters who use different calibers or shotguns or muzzleloaders. People dont get up in arms because I shoot a muzzleloader in the “shotgun” season both are allowed. Effective ranges are similar on both weapons. Both firearms have the ability to have optics...same as the archery equipment in question.

If your agreement is “it can be locked at the ready” so can any vertical bow:
http://www.bowhuntingoutlet.com/bow-acc ... gKxxfD_BwE


If the law allows and harvest numbers show a more successful rate of hunting why be against it?

This topic is similar to politics and scent control lines are drawn and no one is going to introduce new info to the subject to drastically change anyone’s mind on where they stand. All these threads do Is divide a already dieing sport simply because ideals are different does not make any sense to me.


Here in Wi. you still need to choose whether your going to use a xbow or vertical bow. If you want to use both you have to by another permit to use the one you didn't chose when you bought the archery license. As far as the full draw locking device you mention. That's considered the same as a xbow when used. Here in Wisco.

A xbow does use a "bow" to "propel an arrow". But the form needed to shoot a xbow is far from archery and very similar to shooting a shouldered firearm. Then add in most of us are using a scope on our xbows.

So the concern some of us older guys have is the lost tradition of archery in what most states legally call "archery season".

It is a tough balance these days. Trying to keep traditions going while hunter numbers dwindle. Which means less clout politically to keep hunting something the government will still allow for future generations.
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