Deer Retrieval and Meat Quality

[ghoasthunter]

what my system for processing a deer is I skin it hot then quarter up the meat then start boning it out separating muscle groups and making my cuts. I don't let my deer age because I loose some meat to drying. I remove every usable scrap from a deer even the rib meat as I trim I save the scrapes for my dog. then I soak up any blood with a towel. I cut steaks out of hinds and back straps and grind the shoulders and neck after trimming into chop for making German style deli meats. I then portion everything out including the dog food and vacuum seal it and put it in the bottom of chest freezer. I keep everything marked and dated then eat the oldest first so I'm freezer aging it. I shoot a lot of deer so I'm normally eating 2 year old cuts. doing it this way I'm not wasting anything I throw the bones in compost for my wife's flower garden put the fat in the sewit feeder for the birds and give the buck capes I don't use to my taxidermist. even the feet are made into dog chews. I have so much respect for my deer that I cant waste a thing.

[Dewey]

Yea the slower they cool down the gamier the meat will probably taste. But its not like it spoils immediately and that time is only controllable to a point. A deer sitting overnight isn't ideal but I would be confident its perfectly fine unless you have extreme temps...I had a couple deer sit overnight with temps not dropping below the 60s, no problem. Sitting in water would actually cool it faster, thats a good thing I think. Swamp water may look and taste a little funny but its not poison

Once it gets close to 24 hrs a deer is laying there dead is where I would get suspect of it. Even in super cold temps it will probably spoil before the torso freezes solid. Case in point as a kid I found a buck that was shot a couple days earlier by someone else. Temps were single digits and below zero the whole time, legs and head were frozen solid but when we started to gut it - the body cavity was clearly going rancid, and was still kinda warm inside, and we had to give up on salvaging meat. Lay there maybe 48 hrs in that cold of weather and still went rancid inside!

Also I have been paying a lot more attention to letting a deer hang long enough to go completely through rigor mortis. Usually takes 24-36 hrs and the meat is definitely more tender after all rigor has left the body. A couple of the toughest deer I ever are were old bucks I cut up and put in the freezer in a few hours. If at all possible keep the meet in a cooler or the frig for a day to let it go thru rigor, I'm a believer after doing that the last couple years.

if a deer lays for a long time look for bone spoilage first the rot will start at bone out you may just need to remove the inner meat the outer meat will be fine most time its all temps if its under 50 not so much worries as say anything above if its raining out or windy the meat will cool faster also.

The area I am mostly concerned about is deep in the hindquarters at the hip joint as this retains heat for a LONG time especially on big bodied bucks and is very tough to cool in high temps. This is usually where the sour smelling meat starts. That’s why it’s so important to get them skinned and quartered quickly when it’s warm out. Much better than hanging it whole and just packing ice in the cavity like so many do. Venison is only as good as the care you take to preserve the quality. Anytime somebody has gamey tasting venison it’s pretty obvious it was handled poorly after the kill.

[ghoasthunter]

Yea the slower they cool down the gamier the meat will probably taste. But its not like it spoils immediately and that time is only controllable to a point. A deer sitting overnight isn't ideal but I would be confident its perfectly fine unless you have extreme temps...I had a couple deer sit overnight with temps not dropping below the 60s, no problem. Sitting in water would actually cool it faster, thats a good thing I think. Swamp water may look and taste a little funny but its not poison

Once it gets close to 24 hrs a deer is laying there dead is where I would get suspect of it. Even in super cold temps it will probably spoil before the torso freezes solid. Case in point as a kid I found a buck that was shot a couple days earlier by someone else. Temps were single digits and below zero the whole time, legs and head were frozen solid but when we started to gut it - the body cavity was clearly going rancid, and was still kinda warm inside, and we had to give up on salvaging meat. Lay there maybe 48 hrs in that cold of weather and still went rancid inside!

Also I have been paying a lot more attention to letting a deer hang long enough to go completely through rigor mortis. Usually takes 24-36 hrs and the meat is definitely more tender after all rigor has left the body. A couple of the toughest deer I ever are were old bucks I cut up and put in the freezer in a few hours. If at all possible keep the meet in a cooler or the frig for a day to let it go thru rigor, I'm a believer after doing that the last couple years.

if a deer lays for a long time look for bone spoilage first the rot will start at bone out you may just need to remove the inner meat the outer meat will be fine most time its all temps if its under 50 not so much worries as say anything above if its raining out or windy the meat will cool faster also.

The area I am mostly concerned about is deep in the hindquarters at the hip joint as this retains heat for a LONG time especially on big bodied bucks and is very tough to cool in high temps. This is usually where the sour smelling meat starts. That’s why it’s so important to get them skinned and quartered quickly when it’s warm out. Much better than hanging it whole and just packing ice in the cavity like so many do. Venison is only as good as the care you take to preserve the quality. Anytime somebody has gamey tasting venison it’s pretty obvious it was handled poorly after the kill.

yes sir and don't be afraid to slice the hinds right along the bone for transport cooling the meat fast is critical in warm weather. ill butterfly it right open if needed.

[checkerfred]

Lots of good info here from everyone. Like has been said handling from time of kill effects the quality. Ideally you want to field dress immediately, get the hide off, quarter, and get the meat cooling. This slows down spoiling tremendously and the meat will even stand more warm temperatures like the 60’s without spoiling.

Moisture, lack of oxygen, and temp all contribute to spoilage. Think uncured sausage being stuffed and then smoked. Recipe for sickness. Whole muscle quartered meat that doesn’t have all kinds of cuts has less surface area for bacteria. After it’s quartered and hanging the outside surface area starts to dry and the meat is cooling so it can withstand more time before packing the meat out.

If your state or wma allows it, I’d drag to high ground and gut. You can carry a lightweight pulley and rope like Amsteel and hang in a tree easily. Even carry some game bags and skin and quarter before hanging in a tree. Then you can worry about getting the meat out. I actually carry a kill kit with rope and will be adding one or two aluminum pulleys over the metal one I carry now. Game bags or cotton pillow cases are lightweight too.

Once it gets close to 24 hrs a deer is laying there dead is where I would get suspect of it. Even in super cold temps it will probably spoil before the torso freezes solid. Case in point as a kid I found a buck that was shot a couple days earlier by someone else. Temps were single digits and below zero the whole time, legs and head were frozen solid but when we started to gut it - the body cavity was clearly going rancid, and was still kinda warm inside, and we had to give up on salvaging meat. Lay there maybe 48 hrs in that cold of weather and still went rancid inside!

Also I have been paying a lot more attention to letting a deer hang long enough to go completely through rigor mortis

Meat can take a while to freeze, even the processed cuts going in a deep freeze usually take 24 hours to fully freeze. Letting the meat relax definitely helps for tenderness!

I think with any type of water people talk about avoiding, it is the bacteria introduced that is the problem. Yet many people claim to rinse out with a garden hose. Mostly I think meat is fairly resilient, yet I believe in handling and caring for meat in a very clean environment. For years I have rinsed cavities with vinegar and water. It does an excellent job of cleaning. If I ever have questions on cleanliness it gets rinsed with vinegar and water.
.

I agree with this. Anytime you add any water other than purified water, you’re potentially introducing bacteria. The more cuts in the meat the more problematic it is as you’re introducing more surface area to potentially spoil. The vinegar and water is a good idea as acidity keeps bacteria from growing. There’s also a body cavity solution you can buy too but vinegar is cheap and readily available. I’d rather not rinse a deer with water unless it’s being cleaned before putting on ice.

The technical answer is you have four hours of meat being between 40-140 degrees before it is possible for dangerous bacteria to breed. That being said, as soon as the clock strikes 4 you don't necessarily have bad meat, it just means it is now susceptible to it. As others have shown above, it can often sit out considerably longer and be fine.

Obviously, the problem is more serious in warmer weather. Flies are great for introducing bacteria. Sprinkling the meat with black pepper is a good way to keep flies off.

Let me just say that I’m not a expert in the meat industry, but to add it takes temp, lack of oxygen, and moisture to cause spoilage and bacteria growth. I’d think the danger zone would apply more so with something like sausage or not gutting the deer. After gutting no meat on the outside has contact with bacteria. The only real concern would be bacteria in the body cavity but it would be getting oxygen and drying as well. A wipe or rinse with vinegar water would slow growth too. Even quartered you still have the meat cooking, drying and getting oxygen.

[PK_]

If swamp water spoiled venison I’d have starved to death by now

Let me first say, I agree with all the posts that you should field dress, skin, quarter get the meat cold as fast as you can especially in warm weather.

However some people can say some things on this subject as if they are biblical commandments. I will give you a couple examples that should ease your worries as I believe these situations are pushing the limits more than what most people will find themselves in unless a deer goes unrecovered for more than a day in warm weather...

Last year I shot a buck too deep to get out that night. Then realized I forgot my knife I drug him to a shallow slough and let him soak. Temps were in the 50’s that night. I gutted him before light the next morning and hunted a few hours. I drug him to a cool flowing stream and let him soak while I walked back out and got the cart. Once I got the cart to the deer it took another 2 hours to get him to the truck. He tasted like any other deer I have eaten.

Couple years ago I shot a buck in early Sept in south FL, I believe the heat index was 112’ that day. I shot him 3.5 miles from the truck at 9:30am. I couldn’t get him to a place where I could gut him until noon. He was visibly beginning to bloat by then. I got him to a shaded area and had to gut him in the water, like literally he was submerged. On the way back to the truck I sunk him in every deep and shaded hole of water I came across in an attempt to keep him cool. But I was floating him out on my paddle board the whole way and the sun got him so hot that the thin meat overtop the ribs was turned a whitish color (cooked). Getting that deer out took much longer than expected and I was afraid the meat would not be good. I finally got him hung up around 3pm and all the meat was fine. No smell. I am pretty particular about preparation, cleaning, trimming and cooking of my venison and it truly tasted just like any other venison I have had that was properly cleaned (removal of silver skin and fat etc...) and cooked properly.

[JoeRE]

Yea the slower they cool down the gamier the meat will probably taste. But its not like it spoils immediately and that time is only controllable to a point. A deer sitting overnight isn't ideal but I would be confident its perfectly fine unless you have extreme temps...I had a couple deer sit overnight with temps not dropping below the 60s, no problem. Sitting in water would actually cool it faster, thats a good thing I think. Swamp water may look and taste a little funny but its not poison

Once it gets close to 24 hrs a deer is laying there dead is where I would get suspect of it. Even in super cold temps it will probably spoil before the torso freezes solid. Case in point as a kid I found a buck that was shot a couple days earlier by someone else. Temps were single digits and below zero the whole time, legs and head were frozen solid but when we started to gut it - the body cavity was clearly going rancid, and was still kinda warm inside, and we had to give up on salvaging meat. Lay there maybe 48 hrs in that cold of weather and still went rancid inside!

Also I have been paying a lot more attention to letting a deer hang long enough to go completely through rigor mortis. Usually takes 24-36 hrs and the meat is definitely more tender after all rigor has left the body. A couple of the toughest deer I ever are were old bucks I cut up and put in the freezer in a few hours. If at all possible keep the meet in a cooler or the frig for a day to let it go thru rigor, I'm a believer after doing that the last couple years.

if a deer lays for a long time look for bone spoilage first the rot will start at bone out you may just need to remove the inner meat the outer meat will be fine most time its all temps if its under 50 not so much worries as say anything above if its raining out or windy the meat will cool faster also.

The area I am mostly concerned about is deep in the hindquarters at the hip joint as this retains heat for a LONG time especially on big bodied bucks and is very tough to cool in high temps. This is usually where the sour smelling meat starts. That’s why it’s so important to get them skinned and quartered quickly when it’s warm out. Much better than hanging it whole and just packing ice in the cavity like so many do. Venison is only as good as the care you take to preserve the quality. Anytime somebody has gamey tasting venison it’s pretty obvious it was handled poorly after the kill.

Yea I should have been clearer in my first post. If a deer is laying dead UNRECOVERED for 24 hrs that is about where I get concerned. Spoilage can happen faster than that if its hot too. On bigger game like elk and moose bone rot is an issue if it lays with the hair on for just a few hours in hot weather.

Its having the guts in and the hair on that is the issue. Get those off and meat can hang for quite a while as some have mentioned, depending on humidity and temps. Out west with dry air backcountry hunters hang quarters in game bags for a week or more in temps far above freezing.

Its the laying out there with guts in and hide on that causes spoilage so much faster, trapping all that heat and moisture not to mention the stomach is just a big bag of bacteria.

[Octang]

The technical answer is you have four hours of meat being between 40-140 degrees before it is possible for dangerous bacteria to breed. That being said, as soon as the clock strikes 4 you don't necessarily have bad meat, it just means it is now susceptible to it. As others have shown above, it can often sit out considerably longer and be fine.

Obviously, the problem is more serious in warmer weather. Flies are great for introducing bacteria. Sprinkling the meat with black pepper is a good way to keep flies off.

Let me just say that I’m not a expert in the meat industry, but to add it takes temp, lack of oxygen, and moisture to cause spoilage and bacteria growth. I’d think the danger zone would apply more so with something like sausage or not gutting the deer. After gutting no meat on the outside has contact with bacteria. The only real concern would be bacteria in the body cavity but it would be getting oxygen and drying as well. A wipe or rinse with vinegar water would slow growth too. Even quartered you still have the meat cooking, drying and getting oxygen.

You are absolutely correct about lack of oxygen and moisture accelerating the problem. That is good to point out and exactly why gutting and skinning is so important.

In regards to the danger zone, bacteria is bacteria, and doesn't care if it is on the animal or in the sausage grinder. However, I have no doubt it takes some time before the animal's natural body heat disperses and the body starts the process of breaking down (outside temperature being the largest variable in this). But since we can't say for sure when that clock starts, adhering to the four-hour rule whenever possible will always ensure you get safe meat.

[checkerfred]

The technical answer is you have four hours of meat being between 40-140 degrees before it is possible for dangerous bacteria to breed. That being said, as soon as the clock strikes 4 you don't necessarily have bad meat, it just means it is now susceptible to it. As others have shown above, it can often sit out considerably longer and be fine.

Obviously, the problem is more serious in warmer weather. Flies are great for introducing bacteria. Sprinkling the meat with black pepper is a good way to keep flies off.

Let me just say that I’m not a expert in the meat industry, but to add it takes temp, lack of oxygen, and moisture to cause spoilage and bacteria growth. I’d think the danger zone would apply more so with something like sausage or not gutting the deer. After gutting no meat on the outside has contact with bacteria. The only real concern would be bacteria in the body cavity but it would be getting oxygen and drying as well. A wipe or rinse with vinegar water would slow growth too. Even quartered you still have the meat cooking, drying and getting oxygen.

You are absolutely correct about lack of oxygen and moisture accelerating the problem. That is good to point out and exactly why gutting and skinning is so important.

In regards to the danger zone, bacteria is bacteria, and doesn't care if it is on the animal or in the sausage grinder. However, I have no doubt it takes some time before the animal's natural body heat disperses and the body starts the process of breaking down (outside temperature being the largest variable in this). But since we can't say for sure when that clock starts, adhering to the four-hour rule whenever possible will always ensure you get safe meat.

I see what you mean now. Bacteria in sausage vs on the animal, what I mean is if you have a shoulder hanging up with no extra cuts, you only have the outside surface and maybe where it was separated on the bone for bacteria to be on or get in. Bacteria won’t grow inside the muscle unless it’s poked or cut. Each time you cut meat it gives a new surface for bacteria to contact. So on grind meat you’re essentially creating tons of tiny cuts of meat which creates tons of surface area and more risk of contamination. Still the danger zone rule is good to follow.

In the end if you cook it properly, and it’s not spoiled, bacteria shouldn’t be a concern. I still like to take care of mine as quick as possible. I make fermented sausages so I believe it makes a difference there in keeping bacteria count as low as possible.

[checkerfred]

If swamp water spoiled venison I’d have starved to death by now

Let me first say, I agree with all the posts that you should field dress, skin, quarter get the meat cold as fast as you can especially in warm weather.

However some people can say some things on this subject as if they are biblical commandments. I will give you a couple examples that should ease your worries as I believe these situations are pushing the limits more than what most people will find themselves in unless a deer goes unrecovered for more than a day in warm weather...

Last year I shot a buck too deep to get out that night. Then realized I forgot my knife I drug him to a shallow slough and let him soak. Temps were in the 50’s that night. I gutted him before light the next morning and hunted a few hours. I drug him to a cool flowing stream and let him soak while I walked back out and got the cart. Once I got the cart to the deer it took another 2 hours to get him to the truck. He tasted like any other deer I have eaten.

Couple years ago I shot a buck in early Sept in south FL, I believe the heat index was 112’ that day. I shot him 3.5 miles from the truck at 9:30am. I couldn’t get him to a place where I could gut him until noon. He was visibly beginning to bloat by then. I got him to a shaded area and had to gut him in the water, like literally he was submerged. On the way back to the truck I sunk him in every deep and shaded hole of water I came across in an attempt to keep him cool. But I was floating him out on my paddle board the whole way and the sun got him so hot that the thin meat overtop the ribs was turned a whitish color (cooked). Getting that deer out took much longer than expected and I was afraid the meat would not be good. I finally got him hung up around 3pm and all the meat was fine. No smell. I am pretty particular about preparation, cleaning, trimming and cooking of my venison and it truly tasted just like any other venison I have had that was properly cleaned (removal of silver skin and fat etc...) and cooked properly.

You definitely pushed the boundaries on those lol. I just like to take care of mine as quick as possible. I’m ocd on that...same with skinning, I’d rather go slow and not get hair on it. On your two scenarios above though, what kind of shots did you make? A good lung or heart shot I’m sure you have a little more time. Bust the guts and your clock is running. It would be interesting to do a taste test side by side with a deer like from your story above and one taken care of fast.

[Octang]

The technical answer is you have four hours of meat being between 40-140 degrees before it is possible for dangerous bacteria to breed. That being said, as soon as the clock strikes 4 you don't necessarily have bad meat, it just means it is now susceptible to it. As others have shown above, it can often sit out considerably longer and be fine.

Obviously, the problem is more serious in warmer weather. Flies are great for introducing bacteria. Sprinkling the meat with black pepper is a good way to keep flies off.

Let me just say that I’m not a expert in the meat industry, but to add it takes temp, lack of oxygen, and moisture to cause spoilage and bacteria growth. I’d think the danger zone would apply more so with something like sausage or not gutting the deer. After gutting no meat on the outside has contact with bacteria. The only real concern would be bacteria in the body cavity but it would be getting oxygen and drying as well. A wipe or rinse with vinegar water would slow growth too. Even quartered you still have the meat cooking, drying and getting oxygen.

You are absolutely correct about lack of oxygen and moisture accelerating the problem. That is good to point out and exactly why gutting and skinning is so important.

In regards to the danger zone, bacteria is bacteria, and doesn't care if it is on the animal or in the sausage grinder. However, I have no doubt it takes some time before the animal's natural body heat disperses and the body starts the process of breaking down (outside temperature being the largest variable in this). But since we can't say for sure when that clock starts, adhering to the four-hour rule whenever possible will always ensure you get safe meat.

I see what you mean now. Bacteria in sausage vs on the animal, what I mean is if you have a shoulder hanging up with no extra cuts, you only have the outside surface and maybe where it was separated on the bone for bacteria to be on or get in. Bacteria won’t grow inside the muscle unless it’s poked or cut. Each time you cut meat it gives a new surface for bacteria to contact. So on grind meat you’re essentially creating tons of tiny cuts of meat which creates tons of surface area and more risk of contamination. Still the danger zone rule is good to follow.

In the end if you cook it properly, and it’s not spoiled, bacteria shouldn’t be a concern. I still like to take care of mine as quick as possible. I make fermented sausages so I believe it makes a difference there in keeping bacteria count as low as possible.

I completely agree.

BTW, that's awesome you make fermented sausages. I often grind meat and make sausages but I haven't tried fermented sausages yet, but it has been on my to do list.

[checkerfred]

The technical answer is you have four hours of meat being between 40-140 degrees before it is possible for dangerous bacteria to breed. That being said, as soon as the clock strikes 4 you don't necessarily have bad meat, it just means it is now susceptible to it. As others have shown above, it can often sit out considerably longer and be fine.

Obviously, the problem is more serious in warmer weather. Flies are great for introducing bacteria. Sprinkling the meat with black pepper is a good way to keep flies off.

Let me just say that I’m not a expert in the meat industry, but to add it takes temp, lack of oxygen, and moisture to cause spoilage and bacteria growth. I’d think the danger zone would apply more so with something like sausage or not gutting the deer. After gutting no meat on the outside has contact with bacteria. The only real concern would be bacteria in the body cavity but it would be getting oxygen and drying as well. A wipe or rinse with vinegar water would slow growth too. Even quartered you still have the meat cooking, drying and getting oxygen.

You are absolutely correct about lack of oxygen and moisture accelerating the problem. That is good to point out and exactly why gutting and skinning is so important.

In regards to the danger zone, bacteria is bacteria, and doesn't care if it is on the animal or in the sausage grinder. However, I have no doubt it takes some time before the animal's natural body heat disperses and the body starts the process of breaking down (outside temperature being the largest variable in this). But since we can't say for sure when that clock starts, adhering to the four-hour rule whenever possible will always ensure you get safe meat.

I see what you mean now. Bacteria in sausage vs on the animal, what I mean is if you have a shoulder hanging up with no extra cuts, you only have the outside surface and maybe where it was separated on the bone for bacteria to be on or get in. Bacteria won’t grow inside the muscle unless it’s poked or cut. Each time you cut meat it gives a new surface for bacteria to contact. So on grind meat you’re essentially creating tons of tiny cuts of meat which creates tons of surface area and more risk of contamination. Still the danger zone rule is good to follow.

In the end if you cook it properly, and it’s not spoiled, bacteria shouldn’t be a concern. I still like to take care of mine as quick as possible. I make fermented sausages so I believe it makes a difference there in keeping bacteria count as low as possible.

I completely agree.

BTW, that's awesome you make fermented sausages. I often grind meat and make sausages but I haven't tried fermented sausages yet, but it has been on my to do list.

If you’re already making sausages it would be easy for you. I buy bactoferm culture from butcher packer online. F-LC is pretty versatile. I use my oven with just the interior light on and a wet towel close to the light to create high humidity.

[ghoasthunter]

one thing to remember if its a gut shot deer is how long did it take to expire they don't always die right away 24 hour to you find him could mean he was alive 23 hours. also the silver skin and the clear membrane over the muscle makes a barrier. I have processed some deer that would be questionable but if you are real carful and know what to look for you will be fine. if it doesn't look or smell right don't eat it. ever go to a venison processer or butcher I'm willing to bet most guys that cut there own deer get it done faster. I'm always surprised how many people don't butcher there own game. to me its just part of the journey and time to reflect and remember the hunt.

[wolverinebuckman]

ever go to a venison processer or butcher I'm willing to bet most guys that cut there own deer get it done faster. I'm always surprised how many people don't butcher there own game. to me its just part of the journey and time to reflect and remember the hunt.

I got my first deer this year and took it from field to freezer myself. It was an awesome experience, and I can't see ever paying someone to do it for me.

[northeast beast]

I think they float nicely across open water. I wait till I'm over my water hazards then gut it open.

[ghoasthunter]

ever go to a venison processer or butcher I'm willing to bet most guys that cut there own deer get it done faster. I'm always surprised how many people don't butcher there own game. to me its just part of the journey and time to reflect and remember the hunt.

I got my first deer this year and took it from field to freezer myself. It was an awesome experience, and I can't see ever paying someone to do it for me.

Its a fitting end all the hard work and time spent then the drag out and the processing every time I take meat out I can relive the whole hunt. people are so disconnected from there food today I wish everybody could get to experience it at least once. it would really help everyone to understand why we do it.