Swamp Hunters...

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Re: Swamp Hunters...

Unread postby oldrank » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:35 am

Pretty excited to hear this. I am wondering if this info will translate to smaller cedar swamps? Living in southern Michigan we do not have miles of swamp left. I am dealing with 200 acres or less. I am also having issues pin pointing anything on the inside. There seem to be bedding possibilities under every tree. The bucks are there but outside the rut I cant pick up a pattern. Once rut hits I start catching bucks bedding with does on the outside edges. I am going on 3 yrs with one buck. He zigs n I zag. I always seem a step behind. The good news is I have also noticed a repeatable rut pattern that may be his tell. His tracks, rubs n scrapes show him cruising at night come late October. I just can't seem to get the right set on him. Seen him 3 times last yr. Once I feel he heard me come in and circled down wind. I heard him coming n he froze up 15 yards from me motionless until he got a swirl of scent. I could never get a shot through the cedars. The 2nd time I watched him sneak out the back door. Thermals. The third I watched his tracks until I thought he was in the bed I did know about. I got in and was setting up n he was with a doe right on the transition. They both bolted out 45 yrs from me. That was the day before gun season. After the human intrusion I didnt see his tracks again.


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Re: Swamp Hunters...

Unread postby Kraftd » Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:02 am

Singing Bridge wrote:
whitetailassasin wrote:Bayshore has a smaller cedar swamp on the lease he has with his dad. He has been trying to figure out how to penetrate to kill some of the bucks he gets came photos of early season before the rut and they start going property to property in search of estrus does. I've had the opportunity to scout the outside fringes and have even went in some of it looking around for potential bedding zones. It's in a low spot in his land so the thermals are most likely, my theory, going directly to the bedding. And because of the size of this particular cedar swamp, it's difficult to penetrate without alerting the deer that maybe bedded there.


Jason, I agree with your thoughts on the thermals- a small pocket swamp makes hunting very difficult. With that situation I've found it best to work from the outside in, with milkweed, and see what you can get away with. I feel you still have to push it around here to see daylight activity from a good buck, it may take that extreme to learn what it takes to get close enough to kill the buck.

Bayshore is more than welcome to PM me some aerials / topos if he wants.

Scott


This sounds exactly like ours. The best hunt I have ever had in my life was two years ago. Scouted the crap out of our swamp the winter before, located lots of beds, but believed I honed in on a a couple of humps on an edge between cedars and tags that were primary. Waited it out until the following mid October and had a rare just off NE wind and went in stealth mode to within about 60 yards of the bed. About 30 minutes before sunset are heard a little movement towards the bed and some rubbing. Deer started moving off a little too far north where I wouldn't have even seen it. Threw a couple of soft grunts out and 5 minutes later he was within 18 yards in the thickest nastiest stuff you can imagine. Tank of a mature 8. He stayed within 15-2 yards of me never giving a shot for 25 minutes before he finally spooked, I think from sun shining off my new hip boots. Played the winds and thermals perfect. Would have loved to stick him, but by far the most detailed plan I've ever ad come together. Got me kind of addicted to beast style hunting. Never had the right wind wwhen I was up there last year for a repeat. Probably pounce thiss year and make the drive regardless.
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Re: Swamp Hunters...

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:06 am

oldrank wrote:Pretty excited to hear this. I am wondering if this info will translate to smaller cedar swamps? Living in southern Michigan we do not have miles of swamp left. I am dealing with 200 acres or less. I am also having issues pin pointing anything on the inside. There seem to be bedding possibilities under every tree. The bucks are there but outside the rut I cant pick up a pattern. Once rut hits I start catching bucks bedding with does on the outside edges. I am going on 3 yrs with one buck. He zigs n I zag. I always seem a step behind. The good news is I have also noticed a repeatable rut pattern that may be his tell. His tracks, rubs n scrapes show him cruising at night come late October. I just can't seem to get the right set on him. Seen him 3 times last yr. Once I feel he heard me come in and circled down wind. I heard him coming n he froze up 15 yards from me motionless until he got a swirl of scent. I could never get a shot through the cedars. The 2nd time I watched him sneak out the back door. Thermals. The third I watched his tracks until I thought he was in the bed I did know about. I got in and was setting up n he was with a doe right on the transition. They both bolted out 45 yrs from me. That was the day before gun season. After the human intrusion I didnt see his tracks again.


Smaller swamps have the potential to be impacted at a much greater degree by hunting and large predator intrusion. At the same time they are easier to keep track of due to their size. It sounds like you have a good handle on that one during the rut.

Aerials / topos / observation stands should help give at least some idea of the highest probability of more specific bedding locations. Tracks, droppings, rubs, scrapes and tiny funnels just outside the swamp while analyzing buck sign should help with knowing a buck is utilizing it for bedding. When you get really good at finding subtle buck sign, a half day scout around the perimeter... but far enough back to keep from knocking bucks out of their beds, should reveal the most likely locations for the buck to enter or exit.

The swamp may all look the same, but there are noticeable differences in the interior and along the edge that will promote buck bedding in specific locations.
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Re: Swamp Hunters...

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:09 am

Kraftd wrote:
Singing Bridge wrote:
whitetailassasin wrote:Bayshore has a smaller cedar swamp on the lease he has with his dad. He has been trying to figure out how to penetrate to kill some of the bucks he gets came photos of early season before the rut and they start going property to property in search of estrus does. I've had the opportunity to scout the outside fringes and have even went in some of it looking around for potential bedding zones. It's in a low spot in his land so the thermals are most likely, my theory, going directly to the bedding. And because of the size of this particular cedar swamp, it's difficult to penetrate without alerting the deer that maybe bedded there.


Jason, I agree with your thoughts on the thermals- a small pocket swamp makes hunting very difficult. With that situation I've found it best to work from the outside in, with milkweed, and see what you can get away with. I feel you still have to push it around here to see daylight activity from a good buck, it may take that extreme to learn what it takes to get close enough to kill the buck.

Bayshore is more than welcome to PM me some aerials / topos if he wants.

Scott


This sounds exactly like ours. The best hunt I have ever had in my life was two years ago. Scouted the crap out of our swamp the winter before, located lots of beds, but believed I honed in on a a couple of humps on an edge between cedars and tags that were primary. Waited it out until the following mid October and had a rare just off NE wind and went in stealth mode to within about 60 yards of the bed. About 30 minutes before sunset are heard a little movement towards the bed and some rubbing. Deer started moving off a little too far north where I wouldn't have even seen it. Threw a couple of soft grunts out and 5 minutes later he was within 18 yards in the thickest nastiest stuff you can imagine. Tank of a mature 8. He stayed within 15-2 yards of me never giving a shot for 25 minutes before he finally spooked, I think from sun shining off my new hip boots. Played the winds and thermals perfect. Would have loved to stick him, but by far the most detailed plan I've ever ad come together. Got me kind of addicted to beast style hunting. Never had the right wind wwhen I was up there last year for a repeat. Probably pounce thiss year and make the drive regardless.


Sounds great, keep us posted on how it went!
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UPDATE! Swamp Hunters...

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:21 am

We finished the podcast the other day and I am hopeful that it will contain some value for Cedar swamp and other types of coniferous swamp hunting. Kevin did a great job with the interview and was very knowledgeable.

For cedar swamp aficionados (white cedar) I discussed some items that have never been in print before... except here on the Beast. No video, nothing in writing or on hunting shows and whitetail biologists haven't caught up to it yet. Specifically it is how mature bucks utilize cedar swamps in survival conditions that are only partially understood.

Bridge



Singing Bridge wrote:I am planning on being interviewed for "The Deer Hunting Podcast" later this week. I believe our main focus will be hunting Cedar Swamps (white cedar).

I will post a link when it is available. Please take the time to post feedback, positive or negative. It helps me greatly with future responses here on the Beast and elsewhere.

Fire away with questions to me anytime... Bridge.
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Swamp Hunters...

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:00 pm

[quote="Singing Bridge"]I am planning on being interviewed for "The Deer Hunting Podcast" later this week. I believe our main focus will be hunting Cedar Swamps (white cedar).

I will post a link when it is available. Please take the time to post feedback, positive or negative
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Re: Swamp Hunters...

Unread postby blizzardhunter » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:43 pm

I'm looking forward to this. I always enjoy your ideas. I'm jealous because I've heard of cedar swamps but never seen one. I'm hoping some of the info will transfer to my Kentucky hardwood swamps.
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Re: Swamp Hunters...

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:45 pm

We had a great podcast lined up... unfortunately some technical difficulties created a complete loss of the episode.

These kinds of things happen, we will move on and try again down the road.

Bridge
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Re: Swamp Hunters...

Unread postby rbuckleyjr1 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:08 pm

Singing Bridge wrote:We had a great podcast lined up... unfortunately some technical difficulties created a complete loss of the episode.

These kinds of things happen, we will move on and try again down the road.

Bridge


I heard them talk about this on the last podcast. From what Kevin was saying it was one of the best conversations he ever had. To say we are all disappointed is an understatement. I hope you guys can find time to set another one up. Good luck this season!
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Re: Swamp Hunters...

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:00 am

rbuckleyjr1 wrote:
Singing Bridge wrote:We had a great podcast lined up... unfortunately some technical difficulties created a complete loss of the episode.

These kinds of things happen, we will move on and try again down the road.

Bridge


I heard them talk about this on the last podcast. From what Kevin was saying it was one of the best conversations he ever had. To say we are all disappointed is an understatement. I hope you guys can find time to set another one up. Good luck this season!


I'm disappointed too- but we will get there. Kevin likes hunting Cedar swamps so we did have a great conversation. We will get our schedules lined up again!
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Re: Swamp Hunters...

Unread postby WISCOANDY » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:28 pm

I wanted to check in to see if there was any talk of trying this again? I'm a novice cedar swamp guy, and am really looking forward to it if it happens - especially so if it allows me to learn and apply things with scouting yet this winter and spring.
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Re: Swamp Hunters...

Unread postby ghoasthunter » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:09 pm

I'm very interested I hunt a lot of hemlock swamps with similar layouts to cedar swamps
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Re: Swamp Hunters...

Unread postby Babshaft » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:48 am

Singing Bridge wrote:
d_rek wrote:I was always curious how in areas like NLP Michigan in the cedar swamps how other large game animals - namely bear and elk - affect deer movement in cedar swamps? It seems like we find a lot of elk sign but very little deer sign in the cedar swamps up there. Or maybe the elk sign is just that much more obvious? Would be great to hear your thoughts on this.


The bear interact with deer continually inside cedar swamps and really don't influence buck travel much. If a bear's where a buck wants to be the buck will wait him out and then move in. A lot of hunters lose bucks they shoot and can't find right away inside cedar swamps. Black bears have the strength to pick up a dead buck and trot away with it like a dog does with a bone.

The elk I see in the area you mention tend to stick to higher ground and the swamp edges... at least where I scout. I don't see a lot of elk sign deep in the interior. A small swamp without much density will have elk all over it, in my experience.


This thread is pure gold. This post has me thinking about my moose issue. While the elk prefer the exterior the moose seem to prefer the interior. I'm going to put in a ton of time figuring out how the moose and bucks are affecting each other's bedding in the swamp.

Man I hope you guys get a chance to record again. Love listening to you speak on podcasts - well spoken with a ton of information.

I'm gonna go harass Kevin on social media now...lol
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Re: Swamp Hunters...

Unread postby Tim H » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:55 am

I’m not 100% sure but I thought I heard on one of the Deer Hunter podcasts, when they interviewed Scott, it didn’t record. I hope they get a chance to do it again.
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Re: Swamp Hunters...

Unread postby EdC » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:39 am

anyone have any white cedar aerial pics they would post
curious what they look like from satellite photos

I've got some weird swamps that green up but just a stand of timber in winter haven't had a chance to inspect them yet
but I might be able to apply some of the knowledge of these cedar swamps
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