Progressing as a hunter

Discuss the science of figuring out our prey through good detective work.
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SidewayZ
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Progressing as a hunter

Unread postby SidewayZ » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:33 am

After having some early fortune and learning a lot of new tactics over the last year, I am looking to up my game (as many of us do). After finding the beast last year, I used the knowledge here to further scout properties I was already hunting. I found a few beds, bedding areas and gained a lot of knowledge about how deer move through those properties. What I did not find was what I thought was a truly mature buck or mature sign like you see and read about here. I believe I found a few 125 inch (3.5 years and younger) and smaller deer at those locations.

So one thing I that came to mind this spring is that I need to find more properties that layout with certain features for a given terrain.

Obviously you can't kill them where they are not. Another recent observation I have made has been through facebook and seeing harvests of hunters in my state and adjoining states. There is certainly a pattern (regionally) where the big bucks are coming from (not my areas lol) this has also caused me to seek new hunting areas. Its not like hunters give exact locations, but when you see over and over again big bucks being harvested in certain zones it is evident that there must be a reason why those areas are producing.

I think this is similar to Dan's old post about Scouting / Hunting percentages but I did not want to hyjack the thread.

So I guess what I am wondering is for those of you that have been successful with this style, did you also find yourself moving on to other properties with similar features or did you just have to drill down further. I feel like I have drilled down and many times I am just not seeing it in many cases. I feel like its time to move on.


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Re: Progressing as a hunter

Unread postby Jonny » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:44 am

Mine is a bit different. The area I have always hunted is a lower density, big woods public forest. Over 200,000 acres. When you search it online, not much comes up and you really don't see lots of "big bucks" coming from there. There is a facebook page designated for the county, and there are lots of nice bucks on there, but 95% either specify private land, or its obviously private in the picture. The other 5% just look public. Leaner, and lots of swamp bucks. So really that has me pushing towards different areas within where I hunt.

I also listen in on conversations, and really follow things online. I try to relate 2 and 2, and combine that with where I hunt, and am using it to kind of prepare not only for this upcoming season near where I have places to stay, but also to bookmark for 5+ years down the road when I move out of SE wisconsin. It's kind of hard to explain, but I use everybody elses need for attention to point me in the right direction. I even read back on the beast and even the oldest and best killers on the site leave traces where they hunt. Again, I don't follow people around and am not stealing spots. But when a very respected hill hunter here mentions a certain county, you can bet I write that down and put it in my back pocket for example.

I don't have the success to say I will only hunt a certain terrain, but you can use other peoples mistakes and open mouths to narrow down places to look for bigger deer, or in my case, better densities on public land (or so I am hoping)

It's not an exact science, but it definitely helps knowing when you do finally get boots on the ground, you know its a good area. I also have found hidden parcels in great areas that turned out to be complete junk just because it is a really bad property. Might be in a great area, but its not what I am looking for, if that makes sense.

Good post, especially with the season wrapping up for some guys
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Re: Progressing as a hunter

Unread postby tgreeno » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:40 am

For the most part I have moved on to new areas I scouted in the winter/spring. I also have a few spots I've dug deeper and gone further. Many of my new spots are still within 30 minutes of my core area though. I still plan to added more quality bedding areas, as I have a number of new areas already slated for scouting once the season is over. I think I need to up the quality of my areas from this year. I think I sat too many so-so spots this year. But that's all I had.

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Re: Progressing as a hunter

Unread postby KLEMZ » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:37 pm

SidewayZ wrote:What I did not find was what I thought was a truly mature buck or mature sign like you see and read about here. I believe I found a few 125 inch (3.5 years and younger) and smaller deer at those locations.

So one thing I that came to mind this spring is that I need to find more properties that layout with certain features for a given terrain.

Obviously you can't kill them where they are not.


These are good observations. You are correct that you can't kill them if they don't exist on the land you hunt. However, I believe it is likely that they do exist on your land and you just don't see it yet. I say this because it happened to me. I have video of my early beast scouting trips clearly documenting an area as "a doe bedding spot". A few years later I walked that area again (Not even remembering I had been there years earlier), and was excited to find an obvious mature buck bedding spot! (which I had completely missed a few years earlier in my beast development!). This has happened to me more than once.

I guess I am saying that yes you should drill deeper and find new spots, and when you do find the home of a pig, study it closely and compare the terrain layout to your old spots and see if anything jumps out at you. You just might find (like me) that you have more good hunting spots potential than you knew. But over time you will learn which areas to hunt and which areas to drop off your list. It takes time and experience.
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SidewayZ
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Re: Progressing as a hunter

Unread postby SidewayZ » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:26 pm

KLEMZ wrote:
SidewayZ wrote:What I did not find was what I thought was a truly mature buck or mature sign like you see and read about here. I believe I found a few 125 inch (3.5 years and younger) and smaller deer at those locations.

So one thing I that came to mind this spring is that I need to find more properties that layout with certain features for a given terrain.

Obviously you can't kill them where they are not.


These are good observations. You are correct that you can't kill them if they don't exist on the land you hunt. However, I believe it is likely that they do exist on your land and you just don't see it yet. I say this because it happened to me. I have video of my early beast scouting trips clearly documenting an area as "a doe bedding spot". A few years later I walked that area again (Not even remembering I had been there years earlier), and was excited to find an obvious mature buck bedding spot! (which I had completely missed a few years earlier in my beast development!). This has happened to me more than once.

I guess I am saying that yes you should drill deeper and find new spots, and when you do find the home of a pig, study it closely and compare the terrain layout to your old spots and see if anything jumps out at you. You just might find (like me) that you have more good hunting spots potential than you knew. But over time you will learn which areas to hunt and which areas to drop off your list. It takes time and experience.


I will be drilling down some more at some locations. But here is what I am up against. More than likely my hunting next year will be primarily in my home state (Not New Jersey). Here are some statistics for my zone.

My zone is approximately 572 sq. miles - the total deer harvest for that zone is 792 - the adult buck harvest was 494.

So 792 / 572 = 1.38 deer harvested per sq mi
494 / 572 = .86 adult bucks harvested per sq mi

My NJ zone was 3,214 / 250 sq mi = 12.8 per sq mi deer harvested
Not sure what buck to doe break down is.

So my point is not complain about poor deer numbers, but it is in my opinion important to find specific terrain features that more than likely hold mature bucks. What I also believe the numbers tell us is that based on the terrain (rolling hills), almost all old forestation, heavy hunting pressure, even more coyote pressure and low deer density that specific terrain is imperative. I believe that in the setting just described deer are much more free ranging and those that do survive to be mature are few and far between. What I am also beginning to think is that certain terrain features such as dense low vegetation, undergrowth, points, bowls, raised elevations in marsh / swamp settings and bluffy peaks, knobs, fingers, converging ridges, etc in hill country type settings hold mature deer because it provides the security needed for longevity. Yes these types of transitions make for easier scouting but more importantly its helping deer survive to maturity. When I look at my current spots I dont have enough of the edges and transitions.
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Re: Progressing as a hunter

Unread postby PK_ » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:48 pm

Harvest records rarely lie in showing the potential of an area.
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Re: Progressing as a hunter

Unread postby Jonny » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:32 pm

Also for harvest records, look at more than the one year. Deer are natural animals, and they all go in cycles. I’ve seen my area produce unreal numbers of deer, and now since then it’s dropped over 50% easy. But I can also see that 30 some years ago, it was just as low. So yeah the numbers are low, but I know just how many deer this area can produce when the stars align and everything goes right.
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Re: Progressing as a hunter

Unread postby Boogieman1 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:04 pm

I pay little attention to where a dead buck came from, I see a lot of hunters take the cheese on that one and start hunting a dead deer. My progression goes something like this, when I first started making an effort to get better and to do everything in my power to ensure I would have atleast one close encounter with a mature buck a season. I would learn everything I could about a piece of property and how deer used that piece. It prob to me 4 years of hard hunting and scouting to crack that first piece down to the exact tree and when and what conditions to hunt it. That property might not have a mature buck every year but when it does he does the samething and beds the same way as the ones b4 him. Now as years roll on I have stock piled a good bit of places I know inside and out and am always looking for another one. The properties don't take near as long to crack from the lessons I learned from that very first one.
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Re: Progressing as a hunter

Unread postby Tufrthnails » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:41 pm

Well yes and no. I wanted to shoot bigger bucks so I started making the trip to KY every year and yes I've shot some mature bucks up there on the farm. But I have also doubled down on one of the hardest places to hunt in Central FL. I did this for a couple of reasons. I see no better way to hone your skills then to jump in knee deep and test tactics. Have I killed a buck there? Nope, but man are the pieces of the puzzle starting to come together. But I'm also not holding out for a 150" buck although occasional 100''-120" deer come out of there. My goal this year is to kill a legal buck there. And I've had my chances at several good bucks over the last two seasons. Which is where honing those skills comes in.
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SidewayZ
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Re: Progressing as a hunter

Unread postby SidewayZ » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:53 am

My only point about the harvest data was to support that fact you can't kill them where they are not. So far a few properties I have scouted have been brutal.

Chasing dead deer is no good either, but when the mature dead deer come from certain regions there must be a reason. Further scouting will decide that I believe.

I know if I was fishing for trout I wouldnt fish in bass pond. Same for deer.

I know with the lower densities it would be more challenging, I just wanted to know if others even in higher densities were also seeking for certain terrains to find mature bucks or if they were finding them without.
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Re: Progressing as a hunter

Unread postby Rich M » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:24 am

you can get deer density data too - I did all that with some deer hunting in SC. Shot a 100 class buck and saw a 125-inch that I didn't get.

The deer density was nuts - and I did have a stand spot where you could see 20-30 deer a night tho I never sat there cause they were all does and small bucks.

I hunted a place in GA that was just phenomenal for 120-inch bucks - thing is that they never got much bigger. A 130 was huge, a 140 outlandish.

Comes down to deciding what you want and how to achieve it.
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Re: Progressing as a hunter

Unread postby justdirtyfun » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:52 am

The need for new area or better area has it's merits. I have done just that recently.

And I'm second guessing it. :doh: What I hear above is learning a spot inside and out will pay off usually. I know a little about a lot.
A property I have 4 years tied up in has not given me one single deer. But my daylight trail cam pictures from this November say to keep going back.
Using records does come into play to eliminate certain areas. And using cyberscouting for specific features has it's place as well.
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Re: Progressing as a hunter

Unread postby tgreeno » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:45 am

Does anyone know where I can get deer densities for Wisconsin?
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Re: Progressing as a hunter

Unread postby hunter_mike » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:34 am

I am not a mature buck killer like some on this site. I have come to realize how hard that would be to do. I don't think its something that just accidentally happens (at least not consistently). With the trail cams I run and the shining I do, I see that mature bucks do exist around the areas I hunt but a lot of times my mature buck sighting go like this: one trail cam picture of that particular animal or one sighting of that particular animal in that year.

I have not successfully gone the extra mile and been able to focus in on one of those particular mature bucks and get more sightings of them. The saying that accurately applies to my situation is that those deer live where they live and not necessarily where I want them to live, or where I think they should live.

I've scouted lots of bedding, and a lot of that stuff holds some nice (but not necessarily mature) bucks at different times throughout the year. Though some of that bedding I am sure gets used by mature bucks at different points in time throughout the year. From that I see that it would take some real persistent hunting to end up in the right place at the right time consistently.

That all sounds kind of depressing and hopeless, but actually I find it extremely fun to try and figure out in the time I have available. I will keep trying and trying because thats what it takes to hunt like a beast! :twisted: Now if only I had a buck tag in my pocket, gotta stop shooting the "nice" bucks before I even get a chance at the mature bucks :lol: but really the whole process is a blast
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Re: Progressing as a hunter

Unread postby SidewayZ » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:55 am

tgreeno wrote:Does anyone know where I can get deer densities for Wisconsin?


Here ya go. http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/maps.html
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