NorthWoods Novice

Post topo’s and Aerial photos for free advice. Food plotting, land manipulation, water holes, ect.
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Northwoods Novice
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NorthWoods Novice

Unread postby Northwoods Novice » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:51 am

My family has been hunting public land in Northern Minnesota for the last 40 years. Historically, finding a “likely place” to hunt has filled our freezers and put a few big bucks on our walls. In the last 10 years, the equation changed (hard winters, wolves, and over-harvest) and we have been eating our tags more often than not. I found the Beast this past summer.

Much like Beast user MN5503 or MagicMan54494, we hunt some rugged country near the Boundary Waters (mossy balsam ridge tops, 10-20 year old clear-cut popple slashings, spongy cedar swamps, and tons of pocket beaver ponds). We have seen moose and wolves from stand and we find their sign as often as mature bucks.

We are commuters living throughout the Midwest (4-12 hours away), so off-season scouting has not been feasible. I basically committed the 2016 rifle-opener to exclusively in-season scouting. I targeted a marsh island, a cedar swamp island, and some leeward ridge thermal tunnels far off the beaten trail (1+ mile from any other hunters/roads). It was a blast.

Below is the best Scrape/rub combination that I found (2.5 ft high rub, 2 ft x 4 ft wide scrape). I was hoping to target some bedding near this rub/scrape.

Can you guys help me interpret the following sign / maps ?
1. Scrape

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1b. Rub directly behind scrape

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2. Empty marsh island bed that had no fresh sign.(photo facing North East)

Here’s a topo/aerial of the area (For your reference, the prevailing winds in November are NW or S, SE.)
Zoom out

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Zoom in

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Following Dan’s Marsh tactics, I found a potential bed (Labeled 2 above) on a cattail marsh island that was 300 yards away from the hot scrape/rub (crossed thigh-high ice water), but the island was not active (no droppings, rubs, hair). Maybe it’s a seasonal bed? Maybe there wasn’t enough pressure to push a buck there yet? Maybe the northwoods bucks stick to the marsh edges rather than marsh islands?

How would you guys hunt this area?
Would you guys set up near a rub like this?
Are there some spots that I am overlooking?
Would you use more Hill Country, Swamp, or Marsh tactics?

I have so much to learn!
Thanks for any input!
-Jeff


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headgear
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Re: NorthWoods Novice

Unread postby headgear » Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:10 pm

Map didn't load for me but I hunt the same stuff so hopefully I can help. Any rivers nearby? the bucks seem to gravitate towards them when they are there. With bigwoods hunting the prime bedding can be harder to find, there might be 20 great bedding areas but only 1 mature buck in that area so they have their pick of the beds. It can take a lot more scouting to find the goods in these remote areas. I have a few spots that I just can't figure out, I know the bucks are there but when they are there and how they use some spots is a mystery. Beds can go hot and cold depending on the bucks in the area and what they prefer. Many times I will think I have a great bed pinned down and he is in trouble the next season but then he moves or dies and the bed goes cold. It can sometimes take 5+ years to learn an area too, you just need that historical perspective to learn how the bucks use the land. It's not like learning a couple hundred acres, more than likely you are talking square miles and the more you can learn about the area the better but it takes time.
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Re: NorthWoods Novice

Unread postby bigwoodsmn » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:47 pm

Anywhere swamps come into rock ridges are good. The points/fingers into swamps. Any beaver bogs they feed around. Back sides of new cutovers. Deer are in pockets. They aren't in herds but they are communal. Don't be afraid to go track lesser deer to see where they take you. Read Magic's thread on edges. Read G3s thread on Oxbows on rivers. Read Hal Blood's book on Hunting Big Woods Bucks. Just some ideas.

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Re: NorthWoods Novice

Unread postby Carol » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:58 am

I was able to fix all your pictures
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then!

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Re: NorthWoods Novice

Unread postby Northwoods Novice » Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:24 am

Hello HeadGear and BigwoodsMN
Thank you guys so much for responding and huge THANK YOU to Carol for your help and patience.

Here is a second attempt at uploading my small map (.5 mile x .5 mile) of my target area. If you would like to take a look at a bigger section (2 mile x 2 mile), just let me know.
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Headgear: We hunt 3 square miles with no significant rivers, mainly small creeks and tons of pocket beaver ponds. Do you find that bucks like the river contour, foliage(protection or food), or access to water? I am encouraged to heart hat the Northwoods can be a real challenge for others as well. I am pacing myself for the long-haul. Lord willing, I’ll be able to get up there this spring to do some scouting with a bit of snow still on the ground.

BigwoodsMN: I haven’t read Hal Blood’s book (the field tracking guide, right?), but it’s now on my Christmas list. Did you find his books / DVDs to be as helpful on strategy as BB’s Marsh tactics? Was it more specific to the bucks / region you hunt? As far as deer-feeding in the Northwoods, I’ve found that it’s a consistent grazing of buck-brush and newer clear-cut growth throughout the day. I will keep looking for more of the topo features you described for my next round of scouting.

FYI, I live in Chicago and scout the local forest preserves often. It's almost too easy. There are monsters just bumbling around. Check out this guy I photographed last week.
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The Beast Forum, HB podcast, and Dan’s videos have revolutionized my strategy for hunting. I really hope to pattern bucks or at least connect some dots between bedding and feeding. Doe beds are easier to spot up north, but I haven’t succeeded with Buck beds yet.

My dad and older brothers have found success on cruising funnels in the rut, but aside from rut fever or “path of least resistance”, none of us could explain why a buck was traveling on a particular route. We basically have hunted doe areas and hoped that the bucks would be nearby.

The majority of my research is limited to cyber-scouting, so any input is a huge help.
Thanks again! You guys are the best!
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Re: NorthWoods Novice

Unread postby Shed Freak » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:35 pm

Definitely a thread I'm following. I'm in the same boat as you NWN, finding success outside of the rut in the big woods has seemed nearly impossible. Historically it seems as though mature bucks don't exist in the woods until the end of October (this is the observations I have seen through trail cameras and hunting). That's what brought me to this website, and it has already opened my eyes so much. I know these deer don't just magically appear out of thin air like it so often seems....

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Re: NorthWoods Novice

Unread postby bigwoodsmn » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:41 pm

I hunt two different types of terrain in the north woods. One area sits between fields and swamp. It is a few miles "deep" and quite a few miles wide (the area between the fields and the bog) and is a mix of cedar, black spruce, poplar, and various types of other conifers. There is almost no elevation change in that area. In that area, there are a subtle transitions/edges between types of trees and the terrain deer follow, even in the rut. Although they can show up anywhere during the rut.

The other two areas are very similar to each other, though they are a couple hundred miles apart. They are hilly with rock ridges with beaver bogs and swamps. Basically exactly like the Benoit videos. No agriculture. I find in those areas with rock ridges and swamp the deer are somewhat easy to predict but not that easy to hunt, especially the big ones, and especially outside the rut. There are large areas pretty void of deer it seems, and then you'll find pockets of deer. Those are the places (especially this time of year) where if I run into a track in an unusual place (any track), I'll follow it or back track it a while. It always leads to other deer. Sometimes to a buck track. Problem is the days are very short.

I loved Swamp Bucks over Marsh Bucks because Marsh Bucks talks a lot about how their bedding relates to agriculture, which I don't really have where I hunt swamps. Swamp Bedding talks more about what the deer feed on in the swamp.

Hal Blood's "Field Tracking Guide" is a tool you can use in the field to help you decide whether or not to track a certain deer. It's kind of a flip book with plastic pages to help you make decisions. I don't even know where mine is at. I meant this book: https://www.amazon.com/Hunting-Big-Woods-Bucks-Whitetails/dp/1616080434/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1481069162&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=big+woods+bucks+half+blood in particular - I found his book more valuable than the DVDs.

Of course Marsh Bucks and Swamp Bedding has you break down the big areas into a much smaller huntable areas focusing mainly on edges.

I loved the Benoit DVDs because they hammer on location (first importance, you have to go to where the bucks are), selection (picking the right bucks to hunt), and persistence (don't get discouraged).

I'm in the same boat you are with regard to living a long way from where I hunt. So when I get somewhere I have to race around finding intel on what the deer are doing "right now."

This year before the rut I used Google Earth in one area (changed the "year" to look at different versions of the maps), to look at a swamp and guessed exactly where bucks were bedding based on tracks going to a small clump of trees in the swamp. I sat there and it worked perfectly. I didn't shoot the buck that came out but that's just because I wanted something bigger. I've been lucky to shoot quite a few decent bucks in these areas, but I feel like a complete novice because of this HB site. I've been killing deer through "brute force" ... rut tactics... and ground hunting.

I don't know how much help this is. I wish I could drill in on your area a little more on Google Earth if you wanted to share it in a private message.
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Re: NorthWoods Novice

Unread postby headgear » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:32 pm

If you can post up a larger image of the area that would be great. If you don't want others to see it just private message me and I can take a look. A half mile square seems big but in the bigwoods it is really nothing. I like the looks of the creeks and beaver dams already, that is stuff I look for when I seek out bedding areas. With a small half mile section like this it can be hard to get the big picture, the bucks might use the bed but they might have a bunch of other areas too so the more info the better.
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Re: NorthWoods Novice

Unread postby headgear » Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:33 am

For this map, something to consider is the bedding location you marked is likely only used on a S, SE or E winds. Not that they couldn't bed there on other winds but more than likely they are going to want to smell as much of the high ground as possible to see if danger is approaching. If a buck is in the area and there is a north wind he might bed on the high ground with a good view down a ridge, or head to one of those beaver dams and bed on a point or small hump in those general areas. Because you are hunting the rut you will also want to take note of where the does like to hang out, during that time of year it could be more important than buck bedding. Another tip I learned from dan is to max your odds by moving around during the day. Hunting bedding area in the morning and evening hunts, mid day sit on a funnel or cruising area downwind of doe bedding. This has helped me sit more productive hours and get on more deer in a low number areas.

Northwoods Novice wrote:Image
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Re: NorthWoods Novice

Unread postby Northwoods Novice » Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:39 am

Good evening BigwoodsMN and HeadGear

You guys are the BEST. Thanks for your detailed responses. The Hal Blood recommendations were super helpful in calibrating resources. Thanks Bigwoods! And Headgear, I love the input on bedding, especially with the right wind.

Here is a more detailed map of the area that I am targeting. Your help cyber-scouting is invaluable! I only have a few pieces of the puzzle, but I hoped you guys might help me with some advice. It very well maybe that I just have to keep at it for some more years, but I’m in it for the long haul!

I am honestly uncomfortable sharing our hunting coordinates. Even though it’s public land and its been pretty dead recently, my older brothers and dad would kill me. :)  Thanks for understanding. Sorry that the quality is still pretty rough.

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Background information: The map you see is the top NE corner of the area we hunt. Most of the human hunting pressure is to the south, so I theorized that a in rifle season, a mature buck would take cover in this area.
[tab=30]•North Edge: I view the creek to the north as a hard border that a deer wouldn’t cross unless absolutely fleeing for its life. With all of the beaver dams, it is easily6-10ft deep. As you near the creek, the ground becomes mossy like a small transition of cedar swamp.
[tab=30]•West Edge: I also view the cattails to the NW as a hard border with no identifiable islands or destinations out there. NW of the cattails is a big body of water. No dry land.
[tab=30]•South Edge: The south has a big pine ridge with a mossy balsam top that has consistent doe bedding and traffic. This ridge transitions at the bottom of the ridge into an 20+yr old clear-cut that has grown up into a mess of popple slashings.
[tab=30]•East Edge: The East edge has a pine ridge that connects with the south like a dog-leg. Much like the ridge to the South this area is hunted often with the occasional basket-rack buck chasing a doe up a draw at best.

Points of Interest:
[tab=30]•Marsh Island: Based on my Beast-inspired cyber scouting, I targeted the marsh island marked on the map. Upon arrival, it had the characteristics of a Blood Brother’s Buck Bed, but it was honestly dead. No active sign. In fact, I found much more sign on the marsh edge rather than the island itself. Maybe not enough pressure to push a deer there yet?
[tab=30]•Lee-ward Rub/scrape: The deer trail was on the leeward side of this bump of trees. The trail was moving along the hill trending downward. Maybe a buck’s early morning sign headed towards bedding? This is the best rub I’ve ever seen up north and I’ve never seen the combo like this up north (keep in mind, I’m a novice here). Rubs like this are everywhere here in the Chicagoland Forest preserves, but up north I’ve never seen anything this clear.

Thanks again for your help!
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Re: NorthWoods Novice

Unread postby headgear » Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:00 pm

#1 there are no hard stops for deer, they will cross that creek/river, beaver dams and cattails like nothing and they probably do it on a semi regular basis. Or at least as regular as a remote bigwoods can get. If you are finding sign on the edge of the cattails that is likely where they are bedding, it doesn't have to be on an island, they will park in the middle of that stuff or just off the edge or near a lone tree or any brush. I would be scouting that entire transition line along the cattail swamp all the way down into those spruce/tamaracks in the lower SW corner of your photo for bedding. If you get a chance to scout it in the off season I would dive into those cattails/spruce to see what you can find. Bow season I dive into and setup in stuff like that on a regular basis. Also spend some time around all of those beaver dams in the center of the aerial, lots of potential for both bedding and cruising bucks crossing there. Magic talks about transitions a lot and I am very much in agreement with him, find those places where the different transitions come together. There is a spot near the SE where spruce, cattails, beaver dam and popple come together. Same for the SE, you have a pine ridge, popple and beaver dame coming together. These might be good stand spots or maybe not but a little time scouting and hunting will eventually tip you off. Now if you plan to hunt along that cattail/spruce swamp transition be wary of the thermals in the evening, the will pull down those ridges and right into the swamp so the deer might be able to bust you in the evenings and exit out in another direction. If the wind is blowing you are good but if it is calm those thermals will kick in. Before the beast I had to learn that lesson the hard way a few times.

As far as pressure goes it is always smart to get away from other hunters and let their pressure push deer to you, those cattails are likely a magnet when the pressure kicks up and hopefully pull more deer to you. Also remember your own pressure could affect the area so if you can find a way to cross into other areas where there is zero pressure I would if you could. Is there unpressured land across the creek to the north? Is anyone else hunting to the west of the cattails? These are questions you have to think about, your area might be great and low pressure but if there is zero pressure in those areas the oldest and smartest of bucks might not leave those areas in daylight. For example where I rifle hunt I have 3 square miles of swamp to the north of us, I am the only one who ventures up there is no pressure other than me. In the last 5-6 years I have really focused on this area. I have pulled one big buck out there and an had an encounter with another, I have also follow a lot of large tracks that lead into and out of this area but its big and I only have so many days to scout/hunt it because its not close to home so it can take a while to figure these large remote areas out. So if you can push further out into those areas you know no one else is hunting I would take a serious look at doing that. Crossing a beaver dam is fairly easy and there looks to be a few possible crossings to the north. I am always on a lookout for placing I can get to that no one else is hunting. It's great to learn the land you hunt and know it well but deer do not care about any kind of real or imaginary borders, if the absolute best bedding north or west of your map then you have to get up there. Waiting for them to come to you could work but it could take decades.

Ideally you get to know this land well and then expand, a hunter can really never have enough land or bedding areas to hunt. Especially up north where you might need to string together 4-5 square miles to find 1 or 2 mature bucks to hunt.


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