CRP/ Warm Season Grass Plantings

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medicsnoke
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CRP/ Warm Season Grass Plantings

Unread postby medicsnoke » Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:22 pm

First I would like to introduce myself and say a little about me. I was pointed here by Ack and I've poked around THB for awhile, time to start getting active.

Names Corey Snoke from central Ohio. Been bowhunting for 19 years. I may enjoy habitat work and shed hunting more than hunting now a days. Thus, I have a 138 acre farm that I've owned for 5 years and tried to "manage" and start extreme habitat manipulations. So far I've done lots of food plotting, bedding improvements and some travel corridor improvements. This season was probably my best on the farm for seeing daylight mature buck activity but want to keep improving.

My property is very rolling, with the fields being high ground and timber rolling into valleys. The timber on my property, roughly 100 acres is pretty open/mature timber. I signed a contract with a timber buyer last June and they are slated to start cutting timber any week now. This should go a long way in improving bedding, security cover and browse. Maybe I should just stop with that large change in the property, but recently applied for the CRP open enrollment and I am thinking about signing a 10 year contract in CRP if selected.

My farm fields are currently rented to a farmer. He farms 34 acres with corn/soybeans rotation. Only 24 acres of my fields are eligible for CRP because of the farming history. That would leave me with 10 acres to make a destination food plot. The above mentioned text does not include the small parcels on field edges that constitute almost 3 acres. Below I have provided a google shot of my farm. The yellow dotted areas are eligible for CRP. All other open areas would likely get planted in row crops and typical food plot mixes.

Image


My question for anyone with knowledge or just your input is welcome……How do you think changing a property from primarily agriculture to CRP will effect the rest of the property? Will it make the resident deer harder to hunt (by making their bedding opportunity bigger and security cover bigger)?

Also, if I do decide to enroll….what mix of warm season grass would you suggest? I've planted a 3 seed mix of Shelter, Blackwell and Cave n Rock before but the CRP plan call for a 5 seed variety and two of those can be a forb or legume.

If you need any more property info….just ask away…..I'm here for input


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Hawthorne
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Re: CRP/ Warm Season Grass Plantings

Unread postby Hawthorne » Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:35 pm

I think it would improve your property. Better to have more bedding. With the 10 acre destination plot still plenty of food. They bed more in crp if there is structure within in it. Like small groups of pines or shrubs. I've hunted around alot of crp and deer love moving thru it. Turkeys flourish in it also. Ed spinnazola sells a warm season grass and forage blend.

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Re: CRP/ Warm Season Grass Plantings

Unread postby IkemanTx » Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:57 pm

There are quite a few things that would factor into whether or not going CRP is the best move. I don't much experience first hand, but I have been extensively researching for a future project so take anything I say with a few grains of salt. A few questions that I would have to have to come to a better informed decision are....

1. How does your property fit into the puzzle that is the surrounding properties?

2. What resource is LEAST abundant in your immediate area? (think a couple square miles)

3. What resource is MOST abundant in your immediate area?

4. You mentioned the timber contract, but not what areas are getting cut or how they are getting logged. Is this a timber stand improvement, or are you releasing specific desirable species, or is it a clear cut? Also, are the tops being left in field, or removed?

If your area is heavy with Ag production, but lacking in thick bedding cover, you would want to focus on increasing bedding cover. This could already be in motion depending on how your timber harvest is being handled. Pretty much regardless of how they are handling the cutting, your level of browse is about to EXPLODE and stay high for several years. If the areas around you have good thick cover, and less Ag, I would keep the corn/bean rotation. As high of a percentage of timber as you have on the place, I would try to keep a good portion of your current crop production in some kind of food source, unless losing it wouldn't lower herd health and antler mass due easy food sources elsewhere.
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Re: CRP/ Warm Season Grass Plantings

Unread postby medicsnoke » Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:48 pm

Image

As you can my farm is in a relative high agricultural area but (also very unique) in that it is centered with a large woods surrounding a large field.

This IMO has potential to be very popular food source. But from what I have experienced, food plotting 34 acres is not feasible for this small time country boy. The only way to get the entire property farmed is to rent the ground out BUT at the end of the year, the farmer (with very efficient equipment) leaves very little for the deer herd.

I covered this some in my initial post, but if 24 acres gets put into CRP…..that income will cover my typical (past 5 years crop income on 34 acres) and leave me with 10 acres to play with. I'm certain I can handle plating 10 acres with free seed that I acquire through local seed vendors, pheasants forever and buying common fall plantings. In the end, even with less food acreage….i think I'll provide more standing food source (November to March) then I've ever had.


The timber contract I signed was with an agent that ensures me he will cut to my specifications. We have already marked some timber and will soon be marking more in the areas I feel need close supervision. He knows I am farming for deer and thus we will be shooting for diversity. For starters, all white oaks are off limits, then I have some spots reserved for thinning…. 15 year cuts, some 35 year cuts, some deferment areas and even some clear cuts. My goal is diversity, increasing browse and to create some open south facing slopes (in hopes to create shed hunting bedding areas).
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Re: CRP/ Warm Season Grass Plantings

Unread postby Lockdown » Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:03 pm

Hawthorne wrote:I think it would improve your property. Better to have more bedding. With the 10 acre destination plot still plenty of food. They bed more in crp if there is structure within in it. Like small groups of pines or shrubs. I've hunted around alot of crp and deer love moving thru it.

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x2

The deer around here love Big Blue Stem. The taller, the thicker, the better. The best part of BBS is it stays standing all winter. Or at least most of it does. Some CRP grasses lay flat after freeze up, blue stem doesn't.

I've got a private property that I hunt that is 60 acres and 40 is big blue stem. The deer love it, and stay in there very late in the year.
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Re: CRP/ Warm Season Grass Plantings

Unread postby IkemanTx » Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:08 pm

Wow, I love your placement in that timber! Sounds like there is more than enough thought going into your timber harvest. I think you are right that the 10 acres will adequately cover the food, especially as much as you will be gaining in browse and increased production from released trees. Have you looked into including brush plantings in that CRP, or are you looking exclusively grass. I'm excited to see how your property turns out.

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Re: CRP/ Warm Season Grass Plantings

Unread postby Bigburner » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:32 am

I'll give you a little technical data that might help you out as well. IF you are going to plant warm season grass like lockdown said. Big/little blue stem is the way to go. The seed is super expensive and the conservation districts around here in the early years were recommending 5 lbs. of live seed per/acre. Way way too much . Go with like a 1/2 pound. Trust me. Also often times its about a three year lag to get established once you drill it. On a good year it get s up that spring and I have burned it that first year and it was fine. But less is better. You want it to be in clumps. So imagine you being able to roll a softball on the ground from clump to clump. Burning every three years is also really helpful for maintenance. Fire backs through it really well (into the wind). With the wind it gets real exciting real fast. Extreme fire behavior. So keep that in mind. When you burn it for maintenance its important to disk some strips up to keep the stem density down. I burn and maintain around 1000 acres of CRP every year and I would suggest downloading a publication from the University of Tennessee Extension called, "Native Warm Season Grasses" just google it. Its the bible as far as resource professionals are concerned. But as far as habitat, Awesome stuff. Usually each county conservation district has a seed drill as well and they will let you barrow it for planting. You can probably get cost share as well. Most cost shares for CRP are in the 75% range plus they will give you payment per acre/ per year for around 15 years on a contract. Most times around $150 per acre. At least in my neck of the woods. So win, win.
Good luck with it if you decide to go that route.
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Re: CRP/ Warm Season Grass Plantings

Unread postby medicsnoke » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:20 pm

Bigburner,

Thank you for the info.

The general sign up that I applied for has cost share at 50%. The rate per acre is yet to be established but $105 for 24 acres was suggested. At that cost, it offsets the $75 an acre get for 35 acres of renting I have got for the past 5 years.

As for the planting rate, I believe they mandate the lbs. per acre but I'm not positive. I've planted switch (can't remember the rate) before and it did pretty good. I have always thought Cane and Rock was the preferred planting. I'll look into seed varieties and do doe more research on BBS.

My local extension office has a drill that I used last time but I also recently bought a John Deere Van Brunt grain drill that does seed plantings. I was hopping to use it.
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Re: CRP/ Warm Season Grass Plantings

Unread postby medicsnoke » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:25 pm

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Re: CRP/ Warm Season Grass Plantings

Unread postby Ack » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:53 pm

medicsnoke wrote:First I would like to introduce myself and say a little about me. I was pointed here by Ack and I've poked around THB for awhile, time to start getting active.


Good to see you finally showed up Corey. You should post this up in the Introduction forum....you'll get a little more action up there 8-)
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Re: CRP/ Warm Season Grass Plantings

Unread postby Redman232 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:56 pm

I love Cave nRock, you can overseed areas to create barriers around food Floyd or access routes, but the deer prefer bedding where it grows in bunches which is usually the result of suggested seeding rates. You'll get a ton of browse and bedding cover with the timber management but warm season grasses will make your fawning cover explode. Also deer are pretty comfortable moving around in it during daylight and you can shoot down into it easier than standing corn.

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Re: CRP/ Warm Season Grass Plantings

Unread postby HELENVILLEHUNTER » Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:44 am

Hi Corey and welcome to the site. I dont post very often but your situation is so similar to mine I thought I would tell you what I know and hopefully it helps.

In 2011 we had CRP grasses planted on our 140 acres in western WI. There is a 45 acre field that runs across the top of the ridge right down the middle of our property. 37 acres of this field were eligible for CRP. We were continuously getting busted by deer coming in and out from our hunts. Once the grasses were planted we were able to get around the deer and changed our access immediately. Like you, we were getting $75 an acre by a farmer and now just over $100 also.

We did sign a contract through the FSA with a 50% co pay also. The blend of seed that we choose and was approved by them was mainly big bluestem, little bluestem and Indian grass. The blends we were allowed to choose from did not allow switchgrass. We do have fields that were also not eligible for CRP so in some of those fields we planted Cave in the Rock switchgrass. From what I have heard everyone seems to prefer the Cave in the Rock.

We did hire this project out. With the cost of the seed and the insurance/guarantee from the company planting the grass we figured it would be a safer bet letting them do what they do everyday. We are also 3 hours from the property so we could not be there to work on it like we want. I have been told that the grass seeds for these mixes are so fine that a special drill is needed and that a crop seed drill might not work the best. Maybe look into that, I would hate to see the seed not take, especially with what you will be paying for it. They also planted a bluegrass/yard mix around the entire perimeter of the field for a firebreak.

This is now our fifth year and the results have been great. We have more deer bedding on our property and we are able to get around the property better also. Some of the fields that werent eligible are planted in switchgrass and some are foodplos. We are in the process of getting a fire plan together and will be burning this spring. I have been told that after the first burn the grasses really take off. We did cut some of the grasses the first year where the weeds were coming in and we still do have weedy areas. Overall though we have 5 to 6' high grasses that have provided many animals cover. We get 50% co pay for the burn also.

The original seed and planting was between $7,000 and $8,000 and the burn will be around $4,000. Half of this money came from FSA, the other half we had to pay. There was also some money in the contract for mowing it the first year. That still seems like a ton of money to me but trust me, it was worth every penny. We took 3 ten pointers off the property this year and only 3 average bucks off it in the first 4 years we owned it. We have done other improvements since but we are confident that the CRP had more of an impact on our property than anything else. Hope this helps or confirms your ideas for what you are hoping to accomplish.
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Re: CRP/ Warm Season Grass Plantings

Unread postby Redman232 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:00 am

HELENVILLEHUNTER wrote:Hi Corey and welcome to the site. I dont post very often but your situation is so similar to mine I thought I would tell you what I know and hopefully it helps.

In 2011 we had CRP grasses planted on our 140 acres in western WI. There is a 45 acre field that runs across the top of the ridge right down the middle of our property. 37 acres of this field were eligible for CRP. We were continuously getting busted by deer coming in and out from our hunts. Once the grasses were planted we were able to get around the deer and changed our access immediately. Like you, we were getting $75 an acre by a farmer and now just over $100 also.

We did sign a contract through the FSA with a 50% co pay also. The blend of seed that we choose and was approved by them was mainly big bluestem, little bluestem and Indian grass. The blends we were allowed to choose from did not allow switchgrass. We do have fields that were also not eligible for CRP so in some of those fields we planted Cave in the Rock switchgrass. From what I have heard everyone seems to prefer the Cave in the Rock.

We did hire this project out. With the cost of the seed and the insurance/guarantee from the company planting the grass we figured it would be a safer bet letting them do what they do everyday. We are also 3 hours from the property so we could not be there to work on it like we want. I have been told that the grass seeds for these mixes are so fine that a special drill is needed and that a crop seed drill might not work the best. Maybe look into that, I would hate to see the seed not take, especially with what you will be paying for it. They also planted a bluegrass/yard mix around the entire perimeter of the field for a firebreak.

This is now our fifth year and the results have been great. We have more deer bedding on our property and we are able to get around the property better also. Some of the fields that werent eligible are planted in switchgrass and some are foodplos. We are in the process of getting a fire plan together and will be burning this spring. I have been told that after the first burn the grasses really take off. We did cut some of the grasses the first year where the weeds were coming in and we still do have weedy areas. Overall though we have 5 to 6' high grasses that have provided many animals cover. We get 50% co pay for the burn also.

The original seed and planting was between $7,000 and $8,000 and the burn will be around $4,000. Half of this money came from FSA, the other half we had to pay. There was also some money in the contract for mowing it the first year. That still seems like a ton of money to me but trust me, it was worth every penny. We took 3 ten pointers off the property this year and only 3 average bucks off it in the first 4 years we owned it. We have done other improvements since but we are confident that the CRP had more of an impact on our property than anything else. Hope this helps or confirms your ideas for what you are hoping to accomplish.



I love hearing success stories like this. Grasslands are near and dear to my heart, my home area has lost nearly half of our CRP. For my entire life we had huntable populations of pheasant and within just a couple of years they are all but gone, deer numbers are down due to lost fawning cover and I'm sure the turkey population will be next. People really under estimate the value, native grasses bring to the wildlife.
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Re: CRP/ Warm Season Grass Plantings

Unread postby Stanley » Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:25 am

The farms that I hunt are much more productive deer wise with agriculture crops compared to CRP. As I look at your aerial I would say you would be better off with agriculture fields than CRP. That said I know it is hard to get someone to farm smaller areas. I would also bet you could get more income for crop ground compared to CRP.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: CRP/ Warm Season Grass Plantings

Unread postby Stanley » Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:27 am

I would also add I think when you get the undergrowth going after you log off, things will also improve.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.


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