Coyotes: to kill or not to kill?

[TwentyFeetCloser]

There’s a lot of coyotes around some of the areas i hunt. Last day of gun season after I shot a doe from the top of a steep cliff I had a coyote wander up behind me about 10 yards away and just scared it off because it was too close to shoot. Most people I know kill them when they see them if they have the chance. It’s also open season on coyotes here all year even on Sundays.
I was telling this story to some folks I know the other day and ended up getting a lecture about why NOT to kill coyotes. They explained that they know when part of the pack is gone and they respond to it by reproducing more and therefore creating even more coyotes than there were. I since read up on it and learned more that they would just be replaced by other coyotes to fill the vacuum left by the diminished pack. In any case it seems the general consensus is that killing coyotes has no impact on the deer heard in general and could potentially have a negative affect.
I’m just trying to get to the bottom of the whole thing because it would seem the game commission here wants people to hunt them. In fact they will kill them themselves if they need to. Any thoughts for either side of this debate?

[Trout]

Check out Coyotoe America by Dan Flores. Really interesting book that goes into how all of that works and how resilient they are to our efforts to lower their population over the last 150 years. They detect those voids in the pack by their howling and when detected, litter sizes increase. It's not a conscious thing, it's just a natural thing they do.

A guy taking a coyote here and there isn't going to help his local deer herd. It takes a huge effort to lower their numbers, like the good old days of fur trading in the 1980's.

Personally, as don't shoot them when I have the opportunity, they're just out there making a living and I don't see them as much of a threat to my hunting grounds. I might have a different opinion if I lived where their population is out of control.

[NorthStar]

I shot at one this year during firearm season and I of course missed. I was thinking to myself afterwards “why did I shoot at that?” I had know intensions of doing anything with it. Going forward, I plan to let them pass and just enjoy their entertainment value.

[TwentyFeetCloser]

After some mildly uncomfortable lectures and some light reading I pretty much came to the same conclusion so this is valuable insight. After all I think it’s a fair assumption that if the coyotes here are getting over populated it’s because of people killing them rather than lack thereof.
Good to know.

[greenhorndave]

After some mildly uncomfortable lectures and some light reading I pretty much came to the same conclusion so this is valuable insight. After all I think it’s a fair assumption that if the coyotes here are getting over populated it’s because of people killing them rather than lack thereof.
Good to know.

I suppose it's not surprising, but I wouldn't have thought about population spiking if they start to get picked off.

It would be interesting to see if there are any studies where they did a density study on yote populations before and after targeted hunting.

[TwentyFeetCloser]

After some mildly uncomfortable lectures and some light reading I pretty much came to the same conclusion so this is valuable insight. After all I think it’s a fair assumption that if the coyotes here are getting over populated it’s because of people killing them rather than lack thereof.
Good to know.

I suppose it's not surprising, but I wouldn't have thought about population spiking if they start to get picked off.

It would be interesting to see if there are any studies where they did a density study on yote populations before and after targeted hunting.

So far I found a study showing that their litter sizes increase according to prey availability. So according to that data the correlation in hunting would be that if you decrease the coyotes, the amount of prey increases and then in response the litter sizes increase. This is the beginning of this rabbit hole for me but I thought I’d post the link. It’s an entire thing but the abstract is right in the beginning.
https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/view ... dmconfproc

[stash59]

Never heard a coyote howl, nor saw any tracks. Where I grew up in central WI. Until the early 1980's. Which would have put me in my 20's. A neighbor put in a large pig rearing facility in the 80's. And had a new "bone pile" from the dead pigs eventually. That's when the coyotes first showed up. Everyone waged war on them. And it was a rare thing to see coyote tracks or hear howls at night again. For quite a few years. Our family moved away to south central WI. But my friends say the yotes seem to come and go. Depending on the hunting pressure on them!!!

[purebowhunting]

If the deer herd is your focus and you're not going to target them in large numbers best would be targeting them in spring prior to fawn drop if legal. Coyotes will be in the areas they're den up and others are unlikely to move in at that time.

[Jonny]

I let them walk. Remind me too much of a dog and I have no use for them so it’s just wasteful killing which I’m not about.

Hopefully the people who hunt them utilize them like they deserve. No animal deserves to be wasted.

[TwentyFeetCloser]

I let them walk. Remind me too much of a dog and I have no use for them so it’s just wasteful killing which I’m not about.

Hopefully the people who hunt them utilize them like they deserve. No animal deserves to be wasted.

This is the original reason I’ve never killed one. I just don’t think I could kill something and just leave it unless I truly needed to. The good thing is that as I read more I’m finding that whether you hunt them or not they don’t have any more or less impact on the deer or the rest of the ecosystem overall. So there’s no need to kill them. Once they reach a point where they are running thin on prey the females stop breeding so they can maintain nutrition for their current numbers.
The point is coyotes are here to stay and we need to coexist with them. I’m not against hunting them altogether but like you said.. why are you killing them if the deer herd is taken out of the equation?

[Jonny]

I let them walk. Remind me too much of a dog and I have no use for them so it’s just wasteful killing which I’m not about.

Hopefully the people who hunt them utilize them like they deserve. No animal deserves to be wasted.

This is the original reason I’ve never killed one. I just don’t think I could kill something and just leave it unless I truly needed to. The good thing is that as I read more I’m finding that whether you hunt them or not they don’t have any more or less impact on the deer or the rest of the ecosystem overall. So there’s no need to kill them. Once they reach a point where they are running thin on prey the females stop breeding so they can maintain nutrition for their current numbers.
The point is coyotes are here to stay and we need to coexist with them. I’m not against hunting them altogether but like you said.. why are you killing them if the deer herd is taken out of the equation?

The only issues I’ve ever seen from coyotes is them beating hunters to a deer. I get it, it sucks. But we aren’t the only predators eating deer. Just part of sharing the woods. We don’t own anything, just are fortunate to be a part of it.

Honestly it seems like more and more hunters hate anything that kills deer and could potentially reduce their chance at one. Coyotes, wolves, other hunters. Kinda getting pathetic that we are associated with that type of person. Make us all look bad

[Sailfish_WC]

Never heard a coyote howl, nor saw any tracks. Where I grew up in central WI. Until the early 1980's. Which would have put me in my 20's. A neighbor put in a large pig rearing facility in the 80's. And had a new "bone pile" from the dead pigs eventually. That's when the coyotes first showed up. Everyone waged war on them. And it was a rare thing to see coyote tracks or hear howls at night again. For quite a few years. Our family moved away to south central WI. But my friends say the yotes seem to come and go. Depending on the hunting pressure on them!!!

What was said above, when the pack is reduced, they ‘naturally’ fill the void by reproduction/filling in the empty void
However, what you said applys as well.
Once you do the initial kill, you don’t let up. If you ‘wage war’ not just on your property but the area, and keep on it, the population will go in decline and the number will be reduced in a few short years.
But the ‘war’ on them must continue. Once you let up, they will repopulate in a few short years. But yes you can’t control them.

[218er]

I had one stroll by at about 25 yards when I was bow hunting last weekend. The thought of shooting it crossed my mind for a second. It was too pretty. I’ve never shot one. I remember as a kid being told if you shoot it you eat it. I just appreciate them for what they are. I have nothing against those whose hunt them. Just not my thing.

[oldrank]

I dont shoot them. I'm usually deer hunting or turkey hunting when I see them. I'll sometimes mess with em a little bit with some mouse squeaks n call em in. They are all over around here. I do think I see alot more does with no fawns or one fawn than I did before the coyotes populated.

[PK_]

In most cases you need to hunt them with dogs and or trap across a large area, heavily, year round to make a dent but it can be done.

Above was also mentioned a good targeted timeframe just before fawn drop can work for helping in that regard.

Don’t listen to anyone’s ‘lectures’ about whether shooting a random coyote while deer hunting is going to make any impact whatsoever on a population level for the coyotes or their prey. It doesn’t make a difference either way besides their being 1 less coyote for the time being.

I am also kind of tired of people acting as if coyotes are so magical and unique. Every animal, insect and invertebrate on planet earth has biological mechanisms in place to thrive and expand populations when conditions are conducive for it, such as quality habitat and resource availability/lack of competition. Think of does birthing twins or trips in good habitat with available resources. So using that same logic we should not shoot does for population control…

/rant

Disclaimer:
I am just a random idiot on the internet.