When did things click?

[Boogieman1]

3 Words. In Season Scouting.

Think of it like this. There are give or take 30 major league ball parks in the U.S. Post season scouting helps you identify the ballparks (where the deer are likely to be). But those ball parks are empty half the season when the home team is away (or when crop rotation, hunting pressure, or any number of other factors push deer out of what should be a good area (ballpark)). In season scouting, puts you in a ballpark when and where there are games going on. Experience helps you get to homeplate.

I’m certainly glad there is more than one way to skin a cat or I would be completely screwed For the sake of conversation I have my differences of opinion. For one I’m not playing the ballpark. I don’t care if the centerfield wall was blue last year and we had a different blend of grass. Whether I’m on the mound or standing at the plate my scouting shows tendencies. If the pitcher is a first pitch strike kinda guy it’s much easier to T-off when you know what’s coming.

In the deer hunting world I’ve never witnessed either by cams or tree time of any buck doing the same thing day after day after day. I realize whitetails are not the same everywhere just speaking on what I witness. But u gotta get out in front of the suckers. In season scouting is a great way to constantly keep you behind him in my woods.

Just saying I go against the gospel and hunt stands repeatedly. I see bucks make rubs/scrapes and never see them again. Not sure exactly what that fresh sign would produce after he walked away. The buck I killed this year came through one time last year in the middle of the night. Killed him this year standing in the very spot 13hrs from when he showed last year. I just can’t wrap my head around how in season scouting would have let me arrow this buck.

Let me start with, I agree with a lot of what you said. Let me back up. If I am tackling new terrain, I definitely want to scout it in the post-season. That helps me narrow down the country to the ballparks (cross off 90% of the unproductive areas). But I can't tell if there will be apples or acorns in certain areas in March or April. I can't tell if ag fields will be beans, corn, or wheat. I also can't tell if that ballpark has a bunch of minor leaguers (young bucks) or a Barry Bonds type buck...unless I cut a giant track in the spring (again, I was referencing mostly new terrain, as that is what I have been dealing with out west past 3 seasons).

Going back to more than one way to skin a cat, I have killed my top 3 bucks all in very similar fashion. I spotted them the day before either scouting or still hunting, and I killed them the next day. For me, my absolute favorite in season scouting piece of info is an observation of a target animal. Do I expect him to do the EXACT same thing the next day? No, I agree with you there, that's definitely the exception, rather than the rule. Outside of the rut (or during the rut if he is locked down with a doe), do I believe there is a fairly good chance that he will be in a relatively small area very near where I saw him the day before? 100% yes.

Good stuff Cheese! I believe we all learn differently. I look back at certain situations and try to see if other methods would work. A lot easier to do when my way was successful. But my way certainly doesn’t always work and I try to grow just like everyone else. I also suspect I have more time to throw at it than the average hunter and I don’t hunt one particular deer. Certainly wasn’t trying to convince anyone there’s only one way to do it or that what I do would work for a single other hunter. Keeping with the baseball motif some sluggers just can’t hit the curve. Maybe that’s me, I just wait for my pitch. Thanks for taking the time bud.

[Dewey]

Things started clicking when I stopped hunting for deer and instead hunted for mature bucks. Two totally different approaches to hunting. Older bucks require a totally different mindset. After years of seeing tons of deer and killing a bunch of smaller bucks that was admittedly a very hard transition for me to make. It didn’t take long for me to realize I enjoyed quality much better than quantity.

Took awhile to sink in but after completely changing how I hunted and starting to think like an old buck my better buck sightings increased dramatically. I know I reached a better place when I almost immediately stopped seeing tiny bucks and antlerless deer. Instead I was seeing shooters on a regular basis. Hunting bedding areas was the gold nugget I was looking for and the key to opening up a whole new world of hunting for me.

I’ve got a few questions here.

1. How exactly did your mindset and approach to hunting change?

And

2. From your perspective how does an old buck think and how do you not only think like them, but also exploit there habits and weaknesses?

The main thing I changed is my approach reading sign. I no longer get super excited by finding rub lines and fresh scrapes. Sure they’re nice to look at and such but a very large majority are made at night and by younger bucks. More and more I’m noticing mature bucks leave very little classic sign like that. It’s amazing how they can live in an area basically unnoticed especially if not caught on cam. Most of my thought process comes from so many experiences over the years linking older buck sightings to particular times of the year in specific spots. It’s amazing how it repeats within days or even hours from one year to the next. That’s not something a casual hunter can capitalize on.

I spend all winter tracking older bucks in the snow learning their habits and how they navigate the landscape. Important thing is I’m seeking bucks that are still alive and not old sign left by bucks that are dead. Large tracks and large beds tell me what I need to know. If I find sheds even better. I’m specifically seeking out primary beds that are used year round. These are beds that bucks have complete security in just about every wind. When you find one all you can do is observe in awe how a buck has it all figured out. Perfect in every way. I have a good amount of these that have produced well for me over the years during all periods of the season. Rarely do I see small bucks bedding in these spots since they are usually pretty secluded so you can almost always guarantee if there is a good buck around he’s likely bedded in those primary beds. I have a number that have produced year after year. One buck moves out or gets killed and another moves in. Knowing the location of those beds is key to exploit their habits and weaknesses.

You have to think like your an old buck. If somebody was trying to kill you were would you hide and feel the most safe? These are the things I think about. You gotta get in that mindset. Mature bucks got old by not thinking like other deer. They’ve been around long enough to learn a thing or two about us hunters.

Just wanna say don’t think I have all the answers. I will never claim to have it all figured out. I will always claim to be a rookie. The only experts are the bucks themselves and I enjoy being schooled by them every single hunt. I will be a student till the day I die.

[Cutter]

Things started clicking when I stopped hunting for deer and instead hunted for mature bucks. Two totally different approaches to hunting. Older bucks require a totally different mindset. After years of seeing tons of deer and killing a bunch of smaller bucks that was admittedly a very hard transition for me to make. It didn’t take long for me to realize I enjoyed quality much better than quantity.

Took awhile to sink in but after completely changing how I hunted and starting to think like an old buck my better buck sightings increased dramatically. I know I reached a better place when I almost immediately stopped seeing tiny bucks and antlerless deer. Instead I was seeing shooters on a regular basis. Hunting bedding areas was the gold nugget I was looking for and the key to opening up a whole new world of hunting for me.

I’ve got a few questions here.

1. How exactly did your mindset and approach to hunting change?

And

2. From your perspective how does an old buck think and how do you not only think like them, but also exploit there habits and weaknesses?

The main thing I changed is my approach reading sign. I no longer get super excited by finding rub lines and fresh scrapes. Sure they’re nice to look at and such but a very large majority are made at night and by younger bucks. More and more I’m noticing mature bucks leave very little classic sign like that. It’s amazing how they can live in an area basically unnoticed especially if not caught on cam.

I spend all winter tracking older bucks in the snow learning their habits and how they navigate the landscape. Important thing is I’m seeking bucks that are still alive and not old sign left by bucks that are dead. Large tracks and large beds tell me what I need to know. If I find sheds even better. I’m specifically seeking out primary beds that are used year round. These are beds that bucks have complete security in just about every wind. When you find one all you can do is observe in awe how a buck has it all figured out. Perfect in every way. I have a good amount of these that have produced well for me over the years during all periods of the season. Rarely do I see small bucks bedding in these spots since they are usually pretty secluded so you can almost always guarantee if there is a good buck around he’s likely bedded in those primary beds. I have a number that have produced year after year. One buck moves out or gets killed and another moves in. Knowing the location of those beds is key to exploit their habits and weaknesses.

You have to think like your an old buck. If somebody was trying to kill you were would you hide and feel the most safe? These are the things I think about. You gotta get in that mindset. Mature bucks got old by not thinking like other deer. They’ve been around long enough to learn a thing or two about us hunters.

Just wanna say don’t think I have all the answers. I will never claim to have it all figured out. I will always claim to be a rookie. The only experts are the bucks themselves and I enjoy being schooled by them every single hunt. I will be a student till the day I die.

I like the post season scouting strategy. I agree 100% in regards to the old bucks and not leaving a ton of sign. I just appreciate the knowledge my man. Sometimes we get stuck in a mindset and talking it out; hearing different perspectives is what pushes us along to learn more. Are these beds in swamps, hills, or farm country? I can find beds no issue. Deciphering what’s primary and what isn’t is where I get hung up. It seems like the primary vs other beds the differences have to be subtle and I’m missing them. Or I just haven’t found a true primary.

[Dewey]

Things started clicking when I stopped hunting for deer and instead hunted for mature bucks. Two totally different approaches to hunting. Older bucks require a totally different mindset. After years of seeing tons of deer and killing a bunch of smaller bucks that was admittedly a very hard transition for me to make. It didn’t take long for me to realize I enjoyed quality much better than quantity.

Took awhile to sink in but after completely changing how I hunted and starting to think like an old buck my better buck sightings increased dramatically. I know I reached a better place when I almost immediately stopped seeing tiny bucks and antlerless deer. Instead I was seeing shooters on a regular basis. Hunting bedding areas was the gold nugget I was looking for and the key to opening up a whole new world of hunting for me.

I’ve got a few questions here.

1. How exactly did your mindset and approach to hunting change?

And

2. From your perspective how does an old buck think and how do you not only think like them, but also exploit there habits and weaknesses?

The main thing I changed is my approach reading sign. I no longer get super excited by finding rub lines and fresh scrapes. Sure they’re nice to look at and such but a very large majority are made at night and by younger bucks. More and more I’m noticing mature bucks leave very little classic sign like that. It’s amazing how they can live in an area basically unnoticed especially if not caught on cam.

I spend all winter tracking older bucks in the snow learning their habits and how they navigate the landscape. Important thing is I’m seeking bucks that are still alive and not old sign left by bucks that are dead. Large tracks and large beds tell me what I need to know. If I find sheds even better. I’m specifically seeking out primary beds that are used year round. These are beds that bucks have complete security in just about every wind. When you find one all you can do is observe in awe how a buck has it all figured out. Perfect in every way. I have a good amount of these that have produced well for me over the years during all periods of the season. Rarely do I see small bucks bedding in these spots since they are usually pretty secluded so you can almost always guarantee if there is a good buck around he’s likely bedded in those primary beds. I have a number that have produced year after year. One buck moves out or gets killed and another moves in. Knowing the location of those beds is key to exploit their habits and weaknesses.

You have to think like your an old buck. If somebody was trying to kill you were would you hide and feel the most safe? These are the things I think about. You gotta get in that mindset. Mature bucks got old by not thinking like other deer. They’ve been around long enough to learn a thing or two about us hunters.

Just wanna say don’t think I have all the answers. I will never claim to have it all figured out. I will always claim to be a rookie. The only experts are the bucks themselves and I enjoy being schooled by them every single hunt. I will be a student till the day I die.

I like the post season scouting strategy. I agree 100% in regards to the old bucks and not leaving a ton of sign. I just appreciate the knowledge my man. Sometimes we get stuck in a mindset and talking it out; hearing different perspectives is what pushes us along to learn more. Are these beds in swamps, hills, or farm country? I can find beds no issue. Deciphering what’s primary and what isn’t is where I get hung up. It seems like the primary vs other beds the differences have to be subtle and I’m missing them. Or I just haven’t found a true primary.

Mostly marsh. Security is the key. Basically it’s a place where few people go or if they do the buck has great advantages to see or smell predators well before reaching him with an escape area he can easily slip out unnoticed. When I find primary beds I don’t always realize they are indeed primary right away. Some are pretty obvious due to location and amount of worn down beds in a very small area for wind shifts along with both very old and new rubs right in near the beds. Many don’t even have rubs. Some primary beds take me years to figure out and designate them as such. Every terrain is a bit different. Somebody in hills or farmland might have totally different criteria. So many different factors for each.

[PublicLandOwner529]

Things started clicking for me after my antelope hunt in Wyoming 2017. I pretty much ditched tree stands and go at it with a still hunt approach, setting up over hot sign. Just the way I enjoy hunting, not bashing stands.
I have multiple encounters with some pretty nice bucks every year, but have only put one solid buck down.
I am by no means complaining, I get closer every year by paying attention to what I didn't necessarily do wrong, but didn't due RIGHT. Which is probably the other big thing that clicked for me, learning from my mistakes and just not making that mistake ever again.

[seuss79]

Two things dramatically changed the way I hunt.

1. Big bucks don’t do what the other deer do. Big bucks know what’s going down in their neighborhood but they tend to operate on the fringes until darkness.

2. Hunting “hot” sign where I live is usually a recipe for not seeing the big bucks. Aside from tracks the rubs and scrapes I see are made at night. Corn fields, sunflower fields, CRP and sloughs are where they bed and you can kill them. This is not where they make sign.
To kill big deer I have to get in the thick stuff which often means when I see them they are in range and usually it means I see nothing on a sit.

I agree 100%. This year I'm trying to set up near suspected bedding with the best, hot, sign I can find. Big fresh tracks, big fresh turds. You can't look for just any hot sign.

Now maybe the area I'm hunting this year doesn't hold a true mature buck. I don't know but (insert light bulb here) that's my fault for not being able to scout prior.

The thick stuff including CRP is definitely something I'm figuring out this year. I shot a small 8 pointer out of a fold up chair this year. This was in part due to changing my technique to set up where the deer are moving versus where I wanted them to move to. No trees available to hunt out in the right spots.

[Usi05]

I moved down from UP and when I started hunting down in LP of Michigan I had to learn to read deer naturally instead of sitting bait or doing drives. I got so tired of that first season and barely seeing bucks or them being out of range.

Prior to that, I had killed a few good Michigan 8’s, bunch of 6’s and smaller guys. I used to be the guy that sitting in hard woods on land down here because nobody ever taught me how to read land or deer sign.

Around this time I got into elk hunting and reading maps. I became obsessed with killing a bull and did it in second year. Something I heard andrae say clicked for me “find the elk and then hunt them.” I took that and applied it to hunting deer on heavily pressured public.

Then I started researching and listened to everything from Dan and Andrae. Consumed every video on YouTube and joined the forum after that.

Then I knew a lot more about deer and got better but I still wasn’t mobile. So I went saddle and made some killer sticks.

Once I combined all of those factors it got so much better for me.

Then last year my girlfriend and I spent our spring time date nights scouting public land before going out. We like to hike and such so it was a good way for us to do that while scouting. She really enjoyed it.

Each of those items were different moments for me where I got better as a deer hunter.

I’m sure I will have a ton more of those moments. I have had more public land mature buck encounters in last two years because of this site, Dan, Andrae and so many of you!

I am still not where I went to be but I am now very confident in my ability to out hunt the average weekend warrior. While my buddies stop seeing any deer by October 10, I’m seeing bucks most sits.

What I want to do next is to stop seeing so many bucks. Because I’m really trying to narrow in on 2-3 down here and 1-2 in UP and kill one of those bucks. I want the mature bucks and I know if I’m seeing tons of young bucks I’m not in the right spot.

I appreciate each and everyone of you that has taught me something. I spend a lot of time trying to teach friends and family what I’ve learned.

I can’t wait to read this post in a few years and laugh at myself comparing where I am then to now. But at 33, I’ve got plenty of mature buck killing years left to keep getting better.

[OH nontypical]

I think an experienced hunter that experiences some success on big bucks will have to have several moments of discovery that really make it click. Still learning with over 30 years experience.

Truly understanding wind and thermals and how to use them hunting mature bucks.

Couple things that have made a huge difference for me.

One was learning from Don Higgins first book how to manipulate wind.

He said one must hunt the wind that is almost right for the buck and almost wrong for you.

It’s a tougher concept to master than I thought but I have used it to get shots at and come close to getting shots at some really nice bucks in the last 5 or so years. The buck must feel comfortable moving on that wind while still giving you a window (sometimes very small) to get him shot.

Also Dan’s explanation of the wind tunnel effect for rut cruising deer on down wind sides of ridges in hill country led to me analyzing some of my best rut spots and realizing my scent control measures didn’t save me it was the terrain, wind, and thermals working together making these spots almost bullet proof on certain wind directions.

Applying these concepts has made a huge difference for me as the majority of my hunting is in hill country.

One final thought that I always come back to i have heard in many ways from many fine hunters…when hunting deer it’s always about food. Early season, late season, rut, it doesn’t matter. They have to eat to survive. Find the food source and you can always find deer.

[NorthStar]

When doing my own research, I have come across a lot of “do’s and don’ts” when it comes to deer hunting.

Hunt close to bedding! Stay out of the bedding areas!
Scent control products are a must! Just play the wind!
Hunt over scrapes and rubs! That sign was made at night!
Leave your rattling antlers and grunt call at home! Be aggressive and call them in!
Etc., etc., etc.

When I started seeing success, is when I tried all the “do’s and don’ts” for myself and came to my own conclusions. Forums, like the Beast, help me to understand what all the “do’s and don’ts” are so that I can field test them for myself.

For me, it’s about setting achievable goals that stairstep into becoming a successful mature buck harvester. It really helped me to shoot young deer first and fail and succeed at that before going after Mr. Big. I really had to throw myself a bone and taste some success with all the time, effort, and resources I was putting into hunting. It’s a marathon, not a sprint!

[Hawthorne]

It really clicks for me when I hunt high deer density areas with lots of target bucks

[Jackson Marsh]

It really clicks for me when I hunt high deer density areas with lots of target bucks

Ain't that the truth

[gsquared23]

Still not anywhere close to figuring it out. I feel like I’ve scouted enough areas that just by chance I had to walk through something good and not realize it. I’m missing something. Makes private seem like a cakewalk though. I shot my two best bucks ever on 3 hunts this year on private. Can’t get a shot at a doe on public.

[jakebern]

I have a lot to learn still but something that helped me is to get aggressive. I would rather be in the action and screw it up than never be in the game in the first place. Learn from the mistakes and adapt. Those experiences reinforced my scouting and gave me confidence that I was getting to the right places. I combined that with getting out of my comfort zone and keeping an open mind and I learned (still am learning) a lot.

[Brad]

I'm not nearly as experienced killing big mature bucks as most of the guys on this forum, so take anything I say with a grain of salt...
I don't really think there is such a thing as getting it all figured out. To me it's not black and white like an on/off switch, it's more like a dimmer switch, with a bunch of little clicks to get to a high level of competency. Some clicks are bigger than others, but all help to build your knowledge base and improve your hunting experience. This is only my third season hunting deer. My first season I saw some deer, but only 2 bucks total, and one was during the only one day I have ever hunted private land. But I saw more in my second season, and even more in this third season. For me the biggest things I've learned are: #1 be where the deer actually are, and not where you want the deer to be, #2 spend alot of time scouting, both in season and off season, #3 learn to play not only the wind, but also the thermals (often even more important), #4 mature bucks are really good at finding ways to stay alive, whether that be staying in secure areas, using other deer as security, bedding in spots with significant advantages (could be visual, thermal, etc>), and I'm sure other things I'm forgetting at the moment.
If you feel like you don't have it figured out, don't worry, I don't think many really do. I recommend trying to continue to learn as much as possible from the experienced beasts on this forum, other experienced hunters on podcasts, youtube, etc, but then spend as much time as you are able scouting and hunting deer. Learn other peoples experience, gain your own experience, and just learn from every experience.

[WVArcher32]

When did it click? That's a tough one to answer and maybe someone can guide me.

I've been reading this forum for 2-3 years now, along with watching Dan's videos, THP, Whitetail adrenaline, among others. I've always enjoyed hunting but only in the last few years have I been so serious about it. When I say serious I mean, find buck bedding, scout more than I hunt, constantly looking for good set up spots, trying to understand a bucks behavior, etc. I've killed a handful of pretty decent bucks for my area (north central WV), nothing on a consistent basis. A 4.5 year old here is rare. I'm struggling this season, that's for sure. I think my setups are getting better every year, but I'm not in an area known for big mature bucks. So it's pretty hard to answer the question, am I an average hunter, or am I just in an area that stinks as far as mature deer sightings go. Unless I move to the midwest, I guess I'll have to wait 20-30 years down the road and look back at the question.