Skill level and woodsmaship

Discuss deer hunting tactics, Deer behavior. Post your Hunting Stories, Pictures, and Questions/Answers.
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1STRANGEWILDERNESS
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Re: Skill level and woodsmaship

Unread postby 1STRANGEWILDERNESS » Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:01 pm

There are many things that I have learned in life over the years. I figure I’m not the brightest but I learn well from repetition. Doing something over and over and always slipping up but making adjustments and getting a little better each time.

In the woods sometimes it takes seasons to realize where my shortcoming is say in a certain location. I love the times I’m passing through an area and something catches my eye and then I just have an epiphany. All the sudden a big pc of the puzzle is in plain sight. Right where it always was. Nothing I read or watched could prepare me to manage a lot of those situations but time in the woods and attempting to be observant eventually pays off. It doesn’t happen on day 1


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Re: Skill level and woodsmaship

Unread postby Stingray713 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:05 pm

Well said.
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Re: Skill level and woodsmaship

Unread postby Nolte » Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:31 pm

Almost without question, the best all around woodsman I've been around have been old school good trappers. Which are few and far between these days. I spent a childhood riding around in a regular cab truck with one and it amazed me the subtle details that they'd recognize. Guess thats what happens when a decent chunk of your income comes from patterning critters. That path don't pay very well anymore. Deer hunting was for fun and to get some meat in the freezer. Don't think I had a taco or plate of spaghetti that wasn't venison my entire childhood. Usually either the bow or rifle buck was a rack buck too as they netted more meat. And it pays to have a lot of back roads time watching to see when stuff is kicking off. However if time was getting short any legal buck or deer would do. Sure miss those times, life was much simpler.
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Re: Skill level and woodsmaship

Unread postby szwampdonkey » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:15 am

Sad to see we are at the point in society where even some who hunt think you just need to watch a few Youtube videos, get a cell cam, and a cell phone with a mapping app and you’re good to go killing bucks every year. No further skill or commitment required on their part. Thankfully the bucks will humble those types eventually and they’ll either learn or quit.

The tech, social media/phone addicted, instant gratification generation coming of age. I commend you young’s guys bucking that ever increasing trend and still taking the time to do things right, likely in all you do not just hunting.
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Re: Skill level and woodsmaship

Unread postby rs2893 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:47 am

Is the point you guys are trying to make is that the best/proper way to become a proficient woodsman is to go ask my dead grandpa or deadbeat dad the way of the woods? Am I cheating by watching Dan’s videos? Am I wrong for taking advantage of maps via a phone versus paper?

I envy you old hats, I wish I was born decades earlier than I was. I wish my relatives took the time to teach me how to hunt. However I was not that fortunate. No I dont expect instant gratification, yes I believe I should learn the “long division” before using the calculator. I hope all of you that are shunning technology are the longbow deer stalking type because for 99% of hunters are using technology in either their bows, clothing or other stuff that was not available “back in the day”.

Before you judge a “kid” in the parking lot wearing a first lite jacket scrolling through his phone, understand they didnt choose when they were born. But at least they have made the choice to join this small and shrinking group of Americans who love to hunt. They may be fumble-f’in their way along but atleast they are giving it a go. The ultimate goal at the end of the day is conservation and that is gonna need folks long after you and I depart to continue it.

Rant over, I am gonna go hangout with the family, knock out a few honey dos and hopefully get a few arrows downrange.

Seeya!
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Re: Skill level and woodsmaship

Unread postby Jackson Marsh » Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:11 am

rs2893 wrote:Is the point you guys are trying to make is that the best/proper way to become a proficient woodsman is to go ask my dead grandpa or deadbeat dad the way of the woods? Am I cheating by watching Dan’s videos? Am I wrong for taking advantage of maps via a phone versus paper?

I envy you old hats, I wish I was born decades earlier than I was. I wish my relatives took the time to teach me how to hunt. However I was not that fortunate. No I dont expect instant gratification, yes I believe I should learn the “long division” before using the calculator. I hope all of you that are shunning technology are the longbow deer stalking type because for 99% of hunters are using technology in either their bows, clothing or other stuff that was not available “back in the day”.

Before you judge a “kid” in the parking lot wearing a first lite jacket scrolling through his phone, understand they didnt choose when they were born. But at least they have made the choice to join this small and shrinking group of Americans who love to hunt. They may be fumble-f’in their way along but atleast they are giving it a go. The ultimate goal at the end of the day is conservation and that is gonna need folks long after you and I depart to continue it.

Rant over, I am gonna go hangout with the family, knock out a few honey dos and hopefully get a few arrows downrange.

Seeya!


Good post.
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Re: Skill level and woodsmaship

Unread postby Ghost Hunter » Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:21 am

rs2893 wrote:Is the point you guys are trying to make is that the best/proper way to become a proficient woodsman is to go ask my dead grandpa or deadbeat dad the way of the woods? Am I cheating by watching Dan’s videos? Am I wrong for taking advantage of maps via a phone versus paper?

I envy you old hats, I wish I was born decades earlier than I was. I wish my relatives took the time to teach me how to hunt. However I was not that fortunate. No I dont expect instant gratification, yes I believe I should learn the “long division” before using the calculator. I hope all of you that are shunning technology are the longbow deer stalking type because for 99% of hunters are using technology in either their bows, clothing or other stuff that was not available “back in the day”.

Before you judge a “kid” in the parking lot wearing a first lite jacket scrolling through his phone, understand they didnt choose when they were born. But at least they have made the choice to join this small and shrinking group of Americans who love to hunt. They may be fumble-f’in their way along but atleast they are giving it a go. The ultimate goal at the end of the day is conservation and that is gonna need folks long after you and I depart to continue it.

Rant over, I am gonna go hangout with the family, knock out a few honey dos and hopefully get a few arrows downrange.

Seeya!


Awesome post.

Times have changed. It is just different times now. Older guys wish to be younger in days gone by. Younger wish to learn ways of woods. We are all in same boat trying to keep this ship upright and headed right direction.
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Re: Skill level and woodsmaship

Unread postby Putt400 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:21 am

But at least they have made the choice to join this small and shrinking group of Americans who love to hunt.

This is actually the bread and butter of this entire thread. We all have been brought up with the availability of different knowledge levels, equipment and sources to hunt. But what does it really matter on how we chase and learn the WANT to achieve each of our own desired outcomes. I’m just glad we all are on the same team.
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Re: Skill level and woodsmaship

Unread postby Lockdown » Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:25 am

rs2893 wrote:Is the point you guys are trying to make is that the best/proper way to become a proficient woodsman is to go ask my dead grandpa or deadbeat dad the way of the woods? Am I cheating by watching Dan’s videos? Am I wrong for taking advantage of maps via a phone versus paper?

I envy you old hats, I wish I was born decades earlier than I was. I wish my relatives took the time to teach me how to hunt. However I was not that fortunate. No I dont expect instant gratification, yes I believe I should learn the “long division” before using the calculator. I hope all of you that are shunning technology are the longbow deer stalking type because for 99% of hunters are using technology in either their bows, clothing or other stuff that was not available “back in the day”.

Before you judge a “kid” in the parking lot wearing a first lite jacket scrolling through his phone, understand they didnt choose when they were born. But at least they have made the choice to join this small and shrinking group of Americans who love to hunt. They may be fumble-f’in their way along but atleast they are giving it a go. The ultimate goal at the end of the day is conservation and that is gonna need folks long after you and I depart to continue it.

Rant over, I am gonna go hangout with the family, knock out a few honey dos and hopefully get a few arrows downrange.

Seeya!


To answer your first three questions, no, no, and no.

The post isn’t about technology at all. Block out all the other comments and go back and read my original comment.

I’m not knocking anyone nor am I knocking the Facebooker. The entire point that I’m stressing is it’s not that hard to gain a little woodsmanship. It can be another tool in your toolbox if you want it to be, you just need to put forth the effort.

This is just my opinion, but I feel the biggest thing that can improve a person’s game is woodsmanship. I’m just saying people get overwhelmed by the thought of becoming a good woodsman. Here’s a good spot for another favorite quote. “Don’t let the entire staircase overwhelm you. Just focus on the next step.”

I’m encouraging people to learn. I could care less when they were born or if they’re running cell cams or not. In fact cameras have helped me become a better woodsman.
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Re: Skill level and woodsmaship

Unread postby rs2893 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:23 am

@Lockdown,

I had no issues with your original post and agree with it. I was just responding to a few of the follow-on responses that started generalizing my generation as lazy and inpatient. Yeah we have some turds but many of us, including those who are members on this forum are sitting on your side of the fence. Every generation is gonna have hard workers and those who just focus on trying to find the magic pill.

I am thankful this forum exists because it is gonna help me develop those woodsmanship skills you attribute to playing a big part in your success as a hunter.
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Re: Skill level and woodsmaship

Unread postby szwampdonkey » Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:33 am

[quote="rs2893"]Is the point you guys are trying to make is that the best/proper way to become a proficient woodsman is to go ask my dead grandpa or deadbeat dad the way of the woods? Am I cheating by watching Dan’s videos? Am I wrong for taking advantage of maps via a phone versus paper?

No, the point is that you should really strive to learn woodsmanship IN ADDITION to all of that. Trust me, it will make you a better overall hunter. Sounds like, from your comment, you’re already on that path?

Best of luck this year.

Seeya![/quote]
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Re: Skill level and woodsmaship

Unread postby Hawthorne » Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:31 am

The best way to do things is the way you like to do them. People in every walk of life and skill level can kill a big buck with luck or great property
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Re: Skill level and woodsmaship

Unread postby Swampbuck » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:42 am

rs2893 wrote:Is the point you guys are trying to make is that the best/proper way to become a proficient woodsman is to go ask my dead grandpa or deadbeat dad the way of the woods? Am I cheating by watching Dan’s videos? Am I wrong for taking advantage of maps via a phone versus paper?

I envy you old hats, I wish I was born decades earlier than I was. I wish my relatives took the time to teach me how to hunt. However I was not that fortunate. No I dont expect instant gratification, yes I believe I should learn the “long division” before using the calculator. I hope all of you that are shunning technology are the longbow deer stalking type because for 99% of hunters are using technology in either their bows, clothing or other stuff that was not available “back in the day”.

Before you judge a “kid” in the parking lot wearing a first lite jacket scrolling through his phone, understand they didnt choose when they were born. But at least they have made the choice to join this small and shrinking group of Americans who love to hunt. They may be fumble-f’in their way along but atleast they are giving it a go. The ultimate goal at the end of the day is conservation and that is gonna need folks long after you and I depart to continue it.

Rant over, I am gonna go hangout with the family, knock out a few honey dos and hopefully get a few arrows downrange.

Seeya!


The best is going to be the guy who is proficient with woodmanship skills and makes use of the tools available. Which in most cases is going to wind up being the younger guys lol... I remember when i was younger GPS's had started catchin on. I knew how to get around with the compass from before but was in the woods with an old guy and he would rag on me for using the GPS... so after a couple weekends of scouting with me, he really couldn't keep up. He went and bought a gps not long after that. Others did the same when i started using the mapping on my phone lol

Old guys always talk about how the young kids today cant do it like they could.... And many of them cant, but many of them can run circles around the old guys. people are people, some are lazy, and some are ambitious. Those of the latter are going to master their interest and use the tools around them to be as efficient as possible. Some skills will be lost out of lack of use, but if the end game is accomplished it is what it is. i think people just like to complain about the next generation so they can talk themselves up. i suspect every generation has been saying this since the beginning of time. and its been nonsense since then obviously lol
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Re: Skill level and woodsmaship

Unread postby Brad » Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:44 am

Boogieman1 wrote:
Brad wrote:
Boogieman1 wrote:
Brad wrote:Hunting is like most anything else, the more you put into it, the more you'll get out of it. I once had a MARSOC (Marines special ops) operator say that the professionals (he was specifically referring to the special operations forces) are guys that do the fundamentals exceptionally well. That is the same thing for professional athletes. Things like sports have the same fundamentals, whether you are just an average joe weekend warrior or a professional. The thing that sets apart the professional or the masters is that they do the fundamentals exceptionally well and under all different types of circumstances. Another thing talked about by the spec ops guys I've trained with is that in times of stress you will revert back to your lowest level of training. That's so true. If you practice perfect all the time, and practice alot, you'll likely perform well when things are going crazy around you. This all absolutely applies to hunting. Things like woodsmanship, scent management (in the field, not using gimmics), archery/shooting technique, setting up your stands, reading sign, etc are fundamentals. Everybody has to do them at least to a point to have success, but to be truly great you must be exceptional at the fundamentals in varying situations. The more fundamentals you excel at, the higher your skill level, and the more successful you will be.

I'll also second what you said about being a student. Again that is true in most all things. You'll find in almost every field, activity, or sport, it's the ones who spend alot of time trying to make themselves better, learning, honing their skills, who become successful. Those are the ones who are driven to succeed, and those who are truly driven to succeed may have setbacks, but never fail.

I’m not sure if I agree with the ideology or not. I mean how many 145lb middle linebackers do you see in the NFL because they are exceptional at fundamentals? Talent and god given ability play a huge role imo. Some people are natural woodsmen. I mean I have seen young kids be exceptional at putting puzzle pieces together. Maybe it’s because their youthful minds have not been corrupted yet by bs I dunno. But I’ve also seen grown men who have hunted 30+ years who can’t spot the forest from the trees.

I read an article not to long ago about hunting in my home state. While it appears hunter numbers are declining there’s a new breed of modern hunter that is on the steady rise growing at a rapid pace. This new breed of hunter cares nothing about the “how’s” of hunting. They pay a hefty price to go on a canned shoot or weekend guided hunt where the only thing required is showing up. From there they donate the meat and post their hard earned trophy on social media.



The NFL is a different beast than almost any other sport, because they tend to look at measurables as an indicator of potential, instead of looking at the best football players. Therefore the 145 pound linebacker is probably not a good comparison. I do however know some slow 150 pound linebackers that got their college paid for because of their fundamentals. I coached one young man who went on to become a 2x All American and lead the NCAA in sacks and TFL two years in a row, then didn't get drafted and didn't make an NFL roster... it wasn't because of his on the field play, that's for certain. He just didn't fit their measurables. My comment applies in ALMOST every other situation. If you compare apples to apples, even in the NFL, the ones who do the fundamentals better than the rest are the ones who excel. There are countless examples of the guys with the measurables getting drafted very high because of their potential, who never pan out, and often it's because they just don't do the little things right.

That "new breed of hunter" you are talking about may pay for big bucks, but that still doesn't make them good hunters. I'm talking about people who are real experts, not people who buy their way into getting what the real experts earn the hard way. Definitely not the same thing.

Guess we are just gonna have to agree to disagree. Cause I don’t see to many 5 footers in the NBA, any major league pitchers throwing 60 mph smoke, jockeys that weigh 200lbs etc… To me it takes talent. Now I will say when you take someone with god given talent and a work ethic to master fundamentals then u have something special. If not I will pick the lazy guy with talent and like my odds.

Im not a fan of the “new breed” hunter I mentioned. Just was saying the reality of the situation.


I get what you're trying to say, but I can promise you that as a guy who has coached football from the youth to large competitive high school levels, and been involved in high level intercollagiate athletics, I can promise you that there are many more guys that have great talent that gets wasted because of poor fundamentals than there are guys with great fundamentals that get wasted because of poor talent. I would take the guys who have great fundamentals any day. but again, that comparison is kind of comparing apples to oranges. Just like Dan calls a mature buck a different species than other deer, the guys that go to the NFL are a different species than the guys in high school. You're right, there are no 5 foot tall centers in the NBA... because that's a different thing...
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Re: Skill level and woodsmaship

Unread postby mpernest » Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:13 am

moarcher88 wrote:Great post. In this world if instant gratification most people don't want to put in the time or the work. I've been in the trades for 10 years and have seen countless apprentices leave because they weren't willing to be a student and expected to be great within the first couple years. There's something called the 10,000 hour rule, basically it takes that many hours to master a skill. You never truly master a skill whether it's a trade or hunting but the best in both fields never stop trying to learn.


The latest research confirms and expands the 10K hour rule. In fact it is the quality of repetition that is paramount rather than pure quantity. Kind the old saying most of us know about it not being practice that makes perfect, but that perfect practice makes perfect.

Turns out it is not perfect practice - it is corrective practice that makes perfect. So it’s neither rote repetition of a thing nor doing it just right that leads to gains in any skill. It is a constant cycle of “try - evaluate - correct - try” that builds neural pathways toward the thing we generally call talent or expertise. So the 10K hour rule is more or less correct, but it has to be coupled to an iterative process of constant improvement.

Last weekend I was out in the woods with my brother and he asked me why I don’t run cameras. I told him it was because I need to make all the mistakes. In other words, I fear that if I had pictures at some location I would fixate on that and then I would not learn everything else I needed to know. If I keep making mistakes and correcting, I’m building a base of knowledge that, God willing, will one day 10K hours from now look like skill.
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