Human Scent

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aprince1536
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Human Scent

Unread postby aprince1536 » Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:59 pm

I know this is a hotly debated topic, but I’m going to go a little different direction here, so bear with me. As always, hunt the wind first and foremost.

I understand a deer has an unbelievably tremendous scent capability, but my question is not whether or not a deer can perceive the presence of human odor, but at what level is it alarming to them? Here too, I understand not all deer are alike, and what might spook one particular animal may not generate the exact same reaction in another. Residual scent left from boot tracks, sweat, etc. will obviously linger in an affected area for some time, but one cannot deny that this residual scent is far less alarming to deer than direct human scent of a person upwind of the same animal.

Here is the “new” debate. Understanding the limitations of a scent regimen, and that no amount of preparing can fully eliminate a person’s detection from a whitetail, is it possible that it helps more than the naysayers claim that it doesn’t at all? I mean even we humans have scent capability that is triggered by certain levels of odor, where some are barely perceptible, causing very little awareness, and others that are so strong, it’s impossible to dwell on anything else.

Is it possible that a completely clean human, with scent free clothing has a smaller odor “footprint” in the woods, vs a sweaty, fragrance-soaked hunter completely devoid of scent control? Is it possible, the smelly hunter has a larger radius of triggering human odor around them, and more scent left on the ground/vegetation as well? I mean, if we scent deprived humans can pick out the ripe, onion stank of an Amish from a clean, just showered human, surely this same difference will cause differing levels of alertness in deer, and at different distance ranges too.

In situations of air swirling, or the faintest puffs of the wrong wind, having a decent scent regimen(not Eberhart crazy, lol), might just give a hunter some small advantage. I know playing the wind will always trump any and all hunting tactics associated with “fooling” deer, but if your scent regimen could give you an extra 5-10y approach distance advantage, over a whitetail, I think many people might reconsider their stance on the whole subject.

Scent control obviously isn’t foolproof like many of the ad/product campaigns try to claim, but maybe it’s a little bit effective, possibly just enough to care about. A scent free soap shower and scent free laundry detergent might give you that last little edge you need to seal the deal when it really matters....


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Re: Human Scent

Unread postby Jdw » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:50 am

Here is my theory.

I believe a deer can tell if human scent is fresh or old but
In my experience the individual deer and the location of the scent seem to be more important than the intensity level of the scent.

Here is an example of two different bucks the same age.

The first lives in a neighborhood where the hunters are managing the area for older age class bucks.
He has encountered human sent but doesn’t necessarily associate it with people trying to kill him. As a matter of fact it is usually associated with food. So he would be more likely to tolerate a certain level of human Odor especially in a location where he has been conditioned to smelling it with no perceived danger.

The 1st. Buck probably won’t like smelling a human in his core area but he is conditioned to it and is less likely to have a strong reaction.


The 2nd buck lives in an area where he has received more hunting pressure. Maybe some deer drives and has not had any positive association with human odor. He has found an area he feels safe to spend during the day time when he is used to encountering hunters.

If the 2nd buck smells any human scent near his safe area it’s a big deal and he will likely take it seriously.
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Re: Human Scent

Unread postby dan » Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:22 am

If someone put 100,000 apples in your kitchen would you notice them? Of coarse you would... That is the equivalent of the smell of your dirty guy example... Now if we took away 20 of those apples would you walk right thru and not notice the remaining 999980 apples left? I would think it would be very difficult for you to even tell there was a different amount of apples... Your trying to compare a deers nose to our nose and you taking away 20 apples is not making any difference what so ever. Every test not influenced by hunters with a dog in the fight prove this to be true. You can't beat a deers nose. Your odor is so strong to a whitetail that what your doing is the equivalent of removing the 20 apples...
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Re: Human Scent

Unread postby Dpoole90 » Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:55 am

I think if you believe that it helps, then by all means do it.
From my experiences it didn't help much and it felt like a complete was of time. I'm hunting different properties than I was back then but my scent regimen now is take a shower in old spice, old spice deodorant, go to work and shoe 5 to 8 horses, get covered in horse manure, horse sweat, my sweat, hoof smoke, then I head out to hunt and I really see no difference in the day of the hunt, if a deer goes down wind they still blow, if they cross my scentrail the still blow. I really don't see where it matters unless you are planning on hunting the same location multiple times or you are married to a small property for the whole season. If I was in either situation then I would probably go as you stated Eberhard crazy and would maybe only get a handful of hunts in a season and still probably get winded.
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Re: Human Scent

Unread postby Grizzlyadam » Sun Mar 12, 2023 2:10 am

If you could eliminate 99% of your human odor it still only takes 1% of human odor to be 100% busted by a deer downwind.
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Re: Human Scent

Unread postby oldrank » Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:08 am

In my experience there are multiple types of damaging scent. Ground scent left when traveling, sitting saturation type scent that is left when a hunter leaves and hot breath/body scent that is being expelled while on stand.

From my experiences training dogs there is something to the hot breath and body scent. When a dog is hunting they are far more excited by live prey. Once the prey is dead that excitement drops. I believe dogs smell breath more than body odor. If that theory is true than it is probably true for deer also and with that being said it basically renders all scent control as worthless.

I rate scent like this, foot traffic scent is the least damaging and in some areas no issue at all.

Saturation scent is more damaging than foot traffic scent. Again there are certain instances where having a good setup can negate that damage. However it is a ticking clock and leads to burn out.

Live breath/body scent is the worst and can educate a deer in 1 encounter and instantly burn a spot.
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Re: Human Scent

Unread postby Dpoole90 » Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:40 am

oldrank wrote:In my experience there are multiple types of damaging scent. Ground scent left when traveling, sitting saturation type scent that is left when a hunter leaves and hot breath/body scent that is being expelled while on stand.

From my experiences training dogs there is something to the hot breath and body scent. When a dog is hunting they are far more excited by live prey. Once the prey is dead that excitement drops. I believe dogs smell breath more than body odor. If that theory is true than it is probably true for deer also and with that being said it basically renders all scent control as worthless.

I rate scent like this, foot traffic scent is the least damaging and in some areas no issue at all.

Saturation scent is more damaging than foot traffic scent. Again there are certain instances where having a good setup can negate that damage. However it is a ticking clock and leads to burn out.

Live breath/body scent is the worst and can educate a deer in 1 encounter and instantly burn a spot.

Thats a pretty good take on it I think
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Re: Human Scent

Unread postby aprince1536 » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:53 pm

Hmmm. Good conversation so far. The Mythbusters episode would have been a lot more legit if they would’ve done the “scent free” test first. Why on God’s green earth would they go through all that trouble to remove scent for the test, then give him the spray container and do the stinky trial first, when he’s clearly gonna be the cleanest he’s ever gonna get for the “clean test”. But sure, let’s have him spray the scent all around first, obviously screwing up their initial intent to begin with! Ughhh!

I wonder in the dog detection scenarios, where the scent dog is actively seeking a trail, if the super-regimen helps the dog detect the actual trail better? Assuming in the stinky track that the human scent spray is so pungent, and completely saturating the area, could might make cutting an actual scent trail much more difficult because the whole area is just covered. Following the hazmat guy would be a walk-in-the park, cause so much less vegetation/ground is affected, despite the TOTAL scent amount is diminished. I think that LESS scent, but in a concentrated line, like that of a walking human, would be easier to follow for the dog. We can’t ask the dog how it works, but it must be something like this. There’s no way spraying scent all over is less damaging to the area vs the hazmat guy, it’s gotta be sensory overload for the dog, causing confusion in pinpointing a correct path.

Think of it this way, where we humans use our superior sense of eyesight. It’s a lot like trying to follow one particular set of deer tracks in the snow. It’s much easier to follow one deer’s travel if they only make one path, vs that same deer standing, pacing, walking, and feeding through an area for hours. Following a specific track is gonna take more time with more tracks in said spot. Also, the increased tracks will make the area look like MANY deer vs the single one that made them. As a hunter we’re EXCITED at all the leftover tracks(not fearful like a deer of all the leftover scent), and the tracks were much more obvious due to the sheer amount that were leftover, despite our not being able to exactly follow any one particular line of travel very well. We sure KNEW there was a lot of deer action there! But wait, maybe it was just one deer after all???

As always, play the wind.
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Re: Human Scent

Unread postby dan » Mon Mar 13, 2023 2:21 am

aprince1536 wrote:Hmmm. Good conversation so far. The Mythbusters episode would have been a lot more legit if they would’ve done the “scent free” test first. Why on God’s green earth would they go through all that trouble to remove scent for the test, then give him the spray container and do the stinky trial first, when he’s clearly gonna be the cleanest he’s ever gonna get for the “clean test”. But sure, let’s have him spray the scent all around first, obviously screwing up their initial intent to begin with! Ughhh!

I wonder in the dog detection scenarios, where the scent dog is actively seeking a trail, if the super-regimen helps the dog detect the actual trail better? Assuming in the stinky track that the human scent spray is so pungent, and completely saturating the area, could might make cutting an actual scent trail much more difficult because the whole area is just covered. Following the hazmat guy would be a walk-in-the park, cause so much less vegetation/ground is affected, despite the TOTAL scent amount is diminished. I think that LESS scent, but in a concentrated line, like that of a walking human, would be easier to follow for the dog. We can’t ask the dog how it works, but it must be something like this. There’s no way spraying scent all over is less damaging to the area vs the hazmat guy, it’s gotta be sensory overload for the dog, causing confusion in pinpointing a correct path.

Think of it this way, where we humans use our superior sense of eyesight. It’s a lot like trying to follow one particular set of deer tracks in the snow. It’s much easier to follow one deer’s travel if they only make one path, vs that same deer standing, pacing, walking, and feeding through an area for hours. Following a specific track is gonna take more time with more tracks in said spot. Also, the increased tracks will make the area look like MANY deer vs the single one that made them. As a hunter we’re EXCITED at all the leftover tracks(not fearful like a deer of all the leftover scent), and the tracks were much more obvious due to the sheer amount that were leftover, despite our not being able to exactly follow any one particular line of travel very well. We sure KNEW there was a lot of deer action there! But wait, maybe it was just one deer after all???

As always, play the wind.

In your 1st point... The clean guy, the stinky guy, and they guy who was a scent control level clean guy, all took different but similar trails. They did not walk the clean guy down a dirty trail or put him in a dirty box.

In your second point you make a good argument... Except that when clean and pure its extremly easy for the dog (or deer) to find you and where your at even easier than when dirty. So, maybe a cleaner scent made it easier to follow, but that means a deer will know where your at and where your trail is easier too... Either way, they instantly smell it and find the guy.
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Re: Human Scent

Unread postby Ol Split ( ) Toes » Mon Mar 13, 2023 2:28 am

Grizzlyadam wrote:If you could eliminate 99% of your human odor it still only takes 1% of human odor to be 100% busted by a deer downwind.

Bingo
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Re: Human Scent

Unread postby Brad » Mon Mar 13, 2023 2:45 am

Nobody can ever know the real facts behind whether or not scent control helps and to what extent. I believe a mature buck is not likely to tolerate much of any scent at all, but I have seen enough young bucks and does tolerate some scent to know they sometimes will. If There is a mature buck that I am set up perfectly for, but a different deer busts from an area that my scent is going toward, I will be unlikely to tag that mature buck. Therefore if I can get the young bucks and does to tolerate my scent, it still improves my chances, even if only slightly.

My personal philosophy it to hunt as though once scent molecule would bust the deer I'm after, but I try to minimize my personal scent as much as I can without it adding any significant cost of time or money. Basically I do wash my body as well as I can, using scent free bar soap, and I wash my clothes in scent free detergent. Those things don't really cost me any more (time or money) than using my regular bar soap and detergent I would be using anyway. I make sure I don't need to stop to get gas on my way to hunt, so I make sure I'm full the day before. I don't want vehicle exhaust or the smell of gas on me. I try to avoid any obvious scents that are unnatural in the woods when possible. I even throw one of those cheap ozone things in my vehicle over night before a morning hunt, or several hours before leaving for an afternoon hunt, just to minimize scent on my clothes and gear that is in my vehicle. I only do that because I have it, and wouldn't bother getting one if I didn't already have it. So yea, I guess I do try to minimize my scent, but I still hunt as if scent control doesn't do anything at all and the wind and thermals are the key... because they are.
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Re: Human Scent

Unread postby Brokenarrow1980 » Mon Mar 13, 2023 2:57 am

dan wrote:If someone put 100,000 apples in your kitchen would you notice them? Of coarse you would... That is the equivalent of the smell of your dirty guy example... Now if we took away 20 of those apples would you walk right thru and not notice the remaining 999980 apples left? I would think it would be very difficult for you to even tell there was a different amount of apples... Your trying to compare a deers nose to our nose and you taking away 20 apples is not making any difference what so ever. Every test not influenced by hunters with a dog in the fight prove this to be true. You can't beat a deers nose. Your odor is so strong to a whitetail that what your doing is the equivalent of removing the 20 apples...



The goal is to kill him before he hits the kitchen!!!!
It's all fun and games till someone looses an eye..... then its just fun
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Re: Human Scent

Unread postby Ol Split ( ) Toes » Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:20 am

How do you no the scent killer sprays aren't hurting you, just because it says proven to kill 99 percent of human orders on the bottle. Were is the proof.
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Re: Human Scent

Unread postby Ol Split ( ) Toes » Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:39 am

If you spray scent killer in your hand and smell it, it has a distinct odor to it that I can detect much less a deer. Even if it did kill some human scent I believe your just adding another foreign scent to put in there nose. So the bottle could be right it may be proven to kill some human scent, but how many other orders is a deer picking up in that spray that are foreign to them along with the human odor you didn't kill or just created.
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Re: Human Scent

Unread postby dan » Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:44 am

Brokenarrow1980 wrote:
dan wrote:If someone put 100,000 apples in your kitchen would you notice them? Of coarse you would... That is the equivalent of the smell of your dirty guy example... Now if we took away 20 of those apples would you walk right thru and not notice the remaining 999980 apples left? I would think it would be very difficult for you to even tell there was a different amount of apples... Your trying to compare a deers nose to our nose and you taking away 20 apples is not making any difference what so ever. Every test not influenced by hunters with a dog in the fight prove this to be true. You can't beat a deers nose. Your odor is so strong to a whitetail that what your doing is the equivalent of removing the 20 apples...



The goal is to kill him before he hits the kitchen!!!!

Exactly...


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