In-season scouting

[headgear]

Guys scouting with a stand on your back, a what speed are you moving? How far are you normally covering? How cautious are you about noise?

I’ve always heard the saying “Don’t chase sign” or “Don’t be a sign hunter”, especially referring to sign that was mostly made at night. How do you distinguish night sign from shooting light sign? Proximity to bedding? I find so many rubs, they don’t hold much value to me.

I try and relate everything to my spring or winter scouting on top of keeping on eye out for other areas that could be potential bedding. It really depends on where I am and how well I know the terrain as far as speed, if its a new area I might be moving slower along a transition looking for sign and trying not to make a ton of noise. Other times I move from bedding to bedding pretty fast covering distance between them and slow down when I get closer to my destination. I try and scout from a distance but sometimes you just have to get a little closer to confirm things, you kind of have to play it by ear and even not be affraid to bust one out or screw up because you can learn something every time that happens.

[Ognennyy]

Guys scouting with a stand on your back, a what speed are you moving? How far are you normally covering? How cautious are you about noise?

I’ve always heard the saying “Don’t chase sign” or “Don’t be a sign hunter”, especially referring to sign that was mostly made at night. How do you distinguish night sign from shooting light sign? Proximity to bedding? I find so many rubs, they don’t hold much value to me.

About food sources, OUTSIDE of ag, what food sources do you come across that really get you excited? Oaks are so prevelant, that I don’t even consider them. I do find honey locusts and persimmons, but I don’t know how much they really affect deer movement. I tend to hunt in areas choked with honey suckle.

As far as tracks and deer trails. The only ground I find rutted with tracks is made at night, on access trails. With low deer population, I rarely find a exit/entry trail to bedding that looks beat down.

NYBackcountry already gave some great answers to your questions. It sounds like the three of us hunt similar terrain so I'll chime in.

I think probably most of us who hunt big woods struggle with your #1 question regarding movement speed and stealth. I too often find myself still hunting while I'm supposed to be scouting and have to "snap out of it". I think it's natural to mentally slip into predator mode when we're in our hunting environments. But I just remind myself that there's not a good return on my investment for still hunting through an area that I yet have no reason to believe holds deer.

Getting to the point... A simple truth I've come to embrace: If you want to kill deer you have to move too slowly for effective scouting, and if you're on a mission to find deer then you have to move too quickly to hope to be able to kill one. Learning when to slip from one mode seamlessly to the other is paramount for big woods hunters.

That said, how cautious am I about noise? If the plan is to stop and set up right on the spot at some point after discovering hot sign, I think I'm a little more cautious in general throughout my hiking. If I'm rounding the corner of a thicker vegetation area, walking a transition line, or about to crest a hill I'm much more cautious and slow down a little. If it's a thicker area or I'm on a transition line, then deer might be close. If I'm going to crest a hill I don't know what's on the other side, and sound travels much further when you're at the top of a terrain feature.

But this weekend I plan to in-season scout without a weapon in hand; basically I'm going to spring scout but in the fall. I will not be slow or cautious at all. The mission is to get intel on a new area in a short amount of time. I know I won't move fast enough to do that if I bring a weapon (I'll start to still hunt). So going without it will allow me to remain mentally in scout mode.

Your third question I still haven't figured out entirely, but I think I'm starting to. There are no apple trees in the section of the 'Dacks that I hunt, and almost no oak trees. As far as I can tell once the Beeches are done dropping nuts there is no other destination food source in the big timber. I think from the early mid-season (being when mast trees finish up) through the late season, hunting strategies have to evolve around nomadic deer that are constantly on the move. I could be way off on this. And I do believe that probably there are some food sources that have more of a draw than others, and that if you can identify isolated concentrations of those plants you might get more of a bead on big-woods deer in the mid-late season. The NY state DEC lists some here http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7195.html I think such a topic, however, is beyond my woodsmanship skills. I don't think we have Dogwood in the 'Dacks. I don't know what Sassafras or Wintergreen look like. Witch hobble flowers and dies before the Northern zone bow opener.

Anyway... big woods food sources in upstate NY is another topic.

[creepingdeth]

Huge thread...something that will definately help in areas unknown. I spend my bow time close to home in hill country. Next week, guns open. Always up north for that. Biggest part of my plan is to head to cyberscouted areas, still hunt in while scouring for new sign, set-up. Simple as that

[pewpewpew]

Haven't read this one yet, going to go back when I have time, but I think in delving into the Beast way of hunting, I became overly paranoid about scent and burning out areas.

I sort of took the first sit theory as gospel, and last year it resulted in my inseason scouting to decrease dramatically. I did a lot of scouting with my stand on my back, but I didn't feel that was as productive as a careful Sunday stroll simply because I couldn't cover enough ground to really pick an area apart.

I still feel I need that scouting besides hang and hunt.

I won't crash into known bedding, I'll stay on the periphery and try to avoid wind bumping.

A lot of times, it's areas I scouted last offseason and noted some good sign, and then I want to go back and confirm that buck survived and the same indicators are showing up.

Or I may have a hunch a certain buck is hanging out in an area I don't really know, and I need to go learn it.

Maybe an area I need to confirm acorn production, or check progress of a cut area, a lot of scouting for food in big woods.

Some other things like doe bedding and scrapes, that tends to be more predictable.

Plus, Sundays in the fall are just made for scouting (we can't hunt Sundays in PA...yet).

I believe you are into saddle hunting this year? Do you think it will be an advantage for run and gun, based on in season scouting?

The saddle packs up more compact and I carry it in a very nice (expensive) backpack, so if anything it makes hiking in deep a little more pleasant. It carries through brush easier.

It ain't all unicorns and rainbows but it's a nice system once you nail down all the moving parts. I don't take the ounce counting approach but I have a system down that is really functional and better than carrying a treestand.

Once you hang and hunt with a treestand the process is 95% the same and it is a natural transition to try a saddle. Going from climber to hang and hunt last year was a harder transition for me.

I’m thinking about giving it a shot this spring. This is about the time of year I get tired of hauling that thing around on my back.

[pewpewpew]

Guys scouting with a stand on your back, a what speed are you moving? How far are you normally covering? How cautious are you about noise?

I’ve always heard the saying “Don’t chase sign” or “Don’t be a sign hunter”, especially referring to sign that was mostly made at night. How do you distinguish night sign from shooting light sign? Proximity to bedding? I find so many rubs, they don’t hold much value to me.

About food sources, OUTSIDE of ag, what food sources do you come across that really get you excited? Oaks are so prevelant, that I don’t even consider them. I do find honey locusts and persimmons, but I don’t know how much they really affect deer movement. I tend to hunt in areas choked with honey suckle.

As far as tracks and deer trails. The only ground I find rutted with tracks is made at night, on access trails. With low deer population, I rarely find a exit/entry trail to bedding that looks beat down.

NYBackcountry already gave some great answers to your questions. It sounds like the three of us hunt similar terrain so I'll chime in.

I think probably most of us who hunt big woods struggle with your #1 question regarding movement speed and stealth. I too often find myself still hunting while I'm supposed to be scouting and have to "snap out of it". I think it's natural to mentally slip into predator mode when we're in our hunting environments. But I just remind myself that there's not a good return on my investment for still hunting through an area that I yet have no reason to believe holds deer.

Getting to the point... A simple truth I've come to embrace: If you want to kill deer you have to move too slowly for effective scouting, and if you're on a mission to find deer then you have to move too quickly to hope to be able to kill one. Learning when to slip from one mode seamlessly to the other is paramount for big woods hunters.

That said, how cautious am I about noise? If the plan is to stop and set up right on the spot at some point after discovering hot sign, I think I'm a little more cautious in general throughout my hiking. If I'm rounding the corner of a thicker vegetation area, walking a transition line, or about to crest a hill I'm much more cautious and slow down a little. If it's a thicker area or I'm on a transition line, then deer might be close. If I'm going to crest a hill I don't know what's on the other side, and sound travels much further when you're at the top of a terrain feature.

But this weekend I plan to in-season scout without a weapon in hand; basically I'm going to spring scout but in the fall. I will not be slow or cautious at all. The mission is to get intel on a new area in a short amount of time. I know I won't move fast enough to do that if I bring a weapon (I'll start to still hunt). So going without it will allow me to remain mentally in scout mode.

Your third question I still haven't figured out entirely, but I think I'm starting to. There are no apple trees in the section of the 'Dacks that I hunt, and almost no oak trees. As far as I can tell once the Beeches are done dropping nuts there is no other destination food source in the big timber. I think from the early mid-season (being when mast trees finish up) through the late season, hunting strategies have to evolve around nomadic deer that are constantly on the move. I could be way off on this. And I do believe that probably there are some food sources that have more of a draw than others, and that if you can identify isolated concentrations of those plants you might get more of a bead on big-woods deer in the mid-late season. The NY state DEC lists some here http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7195.html I think such a topic, however, is beyond my woodsmanship skills. I don't think we have Dogwood in the 'Dacks. I don't know what Sassafras or Wintergreen look like. Witch hobble flowers and dies before the Northern zone bow opener.

Anyway... big woods food sources in upstate NY is another topic.

[tgreeno]

I ended up doing some mid-day in-scouting Yesterday. Seeing I had family obligations, I didn't want to waste the day. So here was my plan.

To do some in depth in-season scouting. By jumping right into some areas I'd scouted this spring, but not sat yet. I want to check for fresh sign and confirm the beds are being used I thought. These are areas I may not even sit this season, but want to confirm they hold the in-season sign I need. I checked 3 areas. 1 of which I have already sat. The good news is there was fresh sign & rubs in all 3 areas. Not huge sign, but the bedding was as predicted. There where scrapes in 2 of the 3 areas. So my scouting did confirm. I set-up a ground set in one are & and on old snapped-off dead oak tree for another spot. I think 2 of these could be morning spots because of access.

I have given-up a few hunts this season to scout, but it does make me feel like I have a better handle on buck activities in many of my areas.

[ThePreBanMan]

I try to stick to pre-scouted areas when I need to get in quietly on calmer days. I tend to do the "in season scouting, run and gun, stand on back" kind of hunting on days with higher wind so I can move a little faster and cover more ground without as much concern for noise or movement.

[krent12]

I try to stick to pre-scouted areas when I need to get in quietly on calmer days. I tend to do the "in season scouting, run and gun, stand on back" kind of hunting on days with higher wind so I can move a little faster and cover more ground without as much concern for noise or movement.

For sure!

[Bud TN]

Just read 9 pages of great posts.... one question that I have is what time of day are you all doing your in season scouting? I would love to hear how some of you go through a given day? Are you staying in the woods all day? Hunting mornings, leaving, & heading back in early afternoon knowing you will be scouting some different spots? Not hunting mornings & heading in to scout midday, finding sign, hanging a stand, & sitting for 5,6,7 hours? How long would you all say you average sitting on stand?

For YEARS I had a horrible habit of just sitting in one stand ALL day long from 1.5hrs before daylight to an 1hr after dark. I would move stand locations from day to day, but I would still sit there all day . I had always just rationalized it by telling myself it was necessary for my area since the deer density is very low (WRONG). It never occurred to me until years later that I was completely backwards. Because of the low density, I really needed to move MORE because they had such a massive home range to cover in order to find food and to find “the girls”. So over the last 6-8 years, I have started doing more in-season scouting and have had much better success as a result.

My all day sits USED to focus more around the end of October/November time. But i find myself doing more mid-day scouting as of the past couple years due to having good success from it. For instance, sit on stand till 9-11am, scout during belly time, then sit from 2-4pm till dark. The thing I keep in mind is "You can't kill them, if you're not in the woods" so I never leave the woods until i'm going home for the day.

Early season I will do some morning sits here or there if I know exactly where I’m going and I am confident that I won’t spook deer. In a low density area i rarely spook deer (i spook more bear and hogs).
Late season I’ll admit that I still struggle with how to manage hunting times. I do a mixture of morning, all day and evening hunts (I go whenever I have time to go really).
Late season I have always heard folk talk about hunting the food. In a big woods - mountainous area, I struggle with finding "the food". This is where I need to take a dose of my own medicine and really focus on the mobile aspect and still hunt more.
I myself am still learning and I’m going to try a lot of new things this season as result of my own history, this forum and Dan's videos.
I am going to scout in-season more, use my new found beast skills and be more aggressive this fall.

If I don’t kill anything, fine, at least I’ll learn something. If I do get one , GREAT! But, I’ll still learn something. So, why not just try!?!? That’s my plan anyways

I’m also hunting low-density mountains. I’d love to hear more about what kind of sign you’ve found most helpful.

The only thing that gets me excited is piles of poop in thick cover. Everything else, I assume it’s night sign.

With low density, you really can’t count on deer observations to give you a good picture. Seeing 2 deer a day is a days good hunt for me.

Based on how my season has been so far, I don't know that I can offer you much. I've seen 4 deer in the past 2 months/~20 hunts. None of which were shootable encounters since Does are off limits here. i've been hunting pre-scouted beds alot, food, transitions, funnels, and rotated stands religiously with no sightings. I am losing my confidence to say the least .

I have hunted my entire life in these mountains. Its a love/hate relationship that i don't plan on changing. i know i'll probably catch heck for saying it, but i think my area is probably one of the most difficult areas to hunt in the country. Even though i get frustrated, I think I am slowly starting to understand more about my situation and i know there is something i'm missing that i just cannot put my finger on..... I've heard Dan mention that low deer density areas are tough to build confidence in with beast style hunting. I for one can testify to that!

Feel free to tell me where i'm wrong or just a complete idiot after reading this:
When bear/hog (with dogs) season is open, Deer season is closed. I simply bear and hog hunt and scout right along with them. But the deer go into lock down and its like hitting the pause button for deer sign.

There is usually a couple week window of no hunting before another deer season opens here so the deer get a little breathing room during the "Bi-weeks" to start making sign.

I can count on 1 hand how many rubs i've ever found before Oct 20th (i wound up killing him too...and was my best ever ). Rubs just don't occur till late here. Other than that, I don't get excited until i see clusters of sign either rubs or scrapes. I usually keep walking by one-off peices of sign. I try to stay away from sign down low in the hollers or creek drains even if it's fantastic. I've never been successful and it's not because of a scent bust, I just never have seen anything pass through the low places in the mountains in day light.

I find myself more and more focusing on single nobs or mountain tops and steep-short ridge lines. Basically the tops that you can see at night standing out alone.
It seems to me that the deer congregate near the top (upper 1/2 elevation and above) and just traverse around as the wind changes (and it does continuously). The south side face is usually a lural/ ivy and briar thickets that you can't get through quietly and the north side is usually dark open woods.
i find bedding on shelves or old tree stumps that have turned up. When/If I find sparce sign around the base of the mountain, i usually turn and walk straight up to the top from it until a cross a good trail. Then I turn based on the wind and walk along that trail. Thats when i really find sign (or not). as that trail passes along terrain changes, i usually find scrapes/rubs. Depending on what i see with relation to food/bedding/terrain funnels I will probably sit and watch the sign.
I also find that on long ridges, the north side trails are more worn, but sign is sparadic and usually directly at the top of or immediately adjacent to a connecting terrain feature (drain, finger, gap...etc.) When i find a cluster of 2 or more scrapes, i will sit all day if not 2+ full days over it. Most of the time it's a tough long hike to get to these places which is also motivation to stay longer in itself.

I rarely to never sit on a rub line in the mountains, because if you find rubs a scrape or two are usually close by so i keep going until i find the scrapes he's using. The only early rub i mentioned earlier was later followed with a scrape. The scrape was open for about a week before season opened so that i could move in. I killed him opening day on his way to check it. I've killed 3 bucks in this same location by doing this (only 1 of the 3 bucks made early rubs).

With very low deer density, you have a very high probability that there really is only 1 buck using a scrape you find and he might have a 5 mile multi-day loop he covers and numerous beds he uses along the way before he gets back around to you.

One thing i've tried doing this season is hunting the same area, but not the exact same tree or spot. It also depends a lot on how good my access to the spot. I can say 2 days is my max now just becuase i have a short hunting season and wasting too much time at one spot means missing out on another. The majority of my hunting spots only have one feasable entry/exit route so you really have to get creative on stand locations especially on a mtn top/ side ridge/shelf area.

I'd say the newest game changer for me is the addition of a tree saddle 2 seasons ago (started with the guido's web - which is like sitting in my recliner by the way). before this, i never carried a tree stand because walking up/down and through 2 miles of mtn terrain was just not happening! I've never killed a buck from a tree stand, so i'm still waiting to do that. it's addicting to be within 20yrds at eyeball level with a buck before you down him. but being in a tree has many more advantages from a sight perspective!


Sorry to ramble but hopefully someone can set me straight. "I" think i'm doing the right things or am going in the right direction at least, but with low deer population, it requires more time and being in the woods to see it pay off.

But man is it rewarding when it does!!!

[Bud TN]

Just read 9 pages of great posts.... one question that I have is what time of day are you all doing your in season scouting? I would love to hear how some of you go through a given day? Are you staying in the woods all day? Hunting mornings, leaving, & heading back in early afternoon knowing you will be scouting some different spots? Not hunting mornings & heading in to scout midday, finding sign, hanging a stand, & sitting for 5,6,7 hours? How long would you all say you average sitting on stand?

For YEARS I had a horrible habit of just sitting in one stand ALL day long from 1.5hrs before daylight to an 1hr after dark. I would move stand locations from day to day, but I would still sit there all day . I had always just rationalized it by telling myself it was necessary for my area since the deer density is very low (WRONG). It never occurred to me until years later that I was completely backwards. Because of the low density, I really needed to move MORE because they had such a massive home range to cover in order to find food and to find “the girls”. So over the last 6-8 years, I have started doing more in-season scouting and have had much better success as a result.

My all day sits USED to focus more around the end of October/November time. But i find myself doing more mid-day scouting as of the past couple years due to having good success from it. For instance, sit on stand till 9-11am, scout during belly time, then sit from 2-4pm till dark. The thing I keep in mind is "You can't kill them, if you're not in the woods" so I never leave the woods until i'm going home for the day.

Early season I will do some morning sits here or there if I know exactly where I’m going and I am confident that I won’t spook deer. In a low density area i rarely spook deer (i spook more bear and hogs).
Late season I’ll admit that I still struggle with how to manage hunting times. I do a mixture of morning, all day and evening hunts (I go whenever I have time to go really).
Late season I have always heard folk talk about hunting the food. In a big woods - mountainous area, I struggle with finding "the food". This is where I need to take a dose of my own medicine and really focus on the mobile aspect and still hunt more.
I myself am still learning and I’m going to try a lot of new things this season as result of my own history, this forum and Dan's videos.
I am going to scout in-season more, use my new found beast skills and be more aggressive this fall.

If I don’t kill anything, fine, at least I’ll learn something. If I do get one , GREAT! But, I’ll still learn something. So, why not just try!?!? That’s my plan anyways

I’m also hunting low-density mountains. I’d love to hear more about what kind of sign you’ve found most helpful.

The only thing that gets me excited is piles of poop in thick cover. Everything else, I assume it’s night sign.

With low density, you really can’t count on deer observations to give you a good picture. Seeing 2 deer a day is a days good hunt for me.

Based on how my season has been so far, I don't know that I can offer you much. I've seen 4 deer in the past 2 months/~20 hunts. None of which were shootable encounters since Does are off limits here. i've been hunting pre-scouted beds alot, food, transitions, funnels, and rotated stands religiously with no sightings. I am losing my confidence to say the least .

I have hunted my entire life in these mountains. Its a love/hate relationship that i don't plan on changing. i know i'll probably catch heck for saying it, but i think my area is probably one of the most difficult areas to hunt in the country. Even though i get frustrated, I think I am slowly starting to understand more about my situation and i know there is something i'm missing that i just cannot put my finger on..... I've heard Dan mention that low deer density areas are tough to build confidence in with beast style hunting. I for one can testify to that!

Feel free to tell me where i'm wrong or just a complete idiot after reading this:
When bear/hog (with dogs) season is open, Deer season is closed. I simply bear and hog hunt and scout right along with them. But the deer go into lock down and its like hitting the pause button for deer sign.

There is usually a couple week window of no hunting before another deer season opens here so the deer get a little breathing room during the "Bi-weeks" to start making sign.

I can count on 1 hand how many rubs i've ever found before Oct 20th (i wound up killing him too...and was my best ever ). Rubs just don't occur till late here. Other than that, I don't get excited until i see clusters of sign either rubs or scrapes. I usually keep walking by one-off peices of sign. I try to stay away from sign down low in the hollers or creek drains even if it's fantastic. I've never been successful and it's not because of a scent bust, I just never have seen anything pass through the low places in the mountains in day light.

I find myself more and more focusing on single nobs or mountain tops and steep-short ridge lines. Basically the tops that you can see at night standing out alone.
It seems to me that the deer congregate near the top (upper 1/2 elevation and above) and just traverse around as the wind changes (and it does continuously). The south side face is usually a lural/ ivy and briar thickets that you can't get through quietly and the north side is usually dark open woods.
i find bedding on shelves or old tree stumps that have turned up. When/If I find sparce sign around the base of the mountain, i usually turn and walk straight up to the top from it until a cross a good trail. Then I turn based on the wind and walk along that trail. Thats when i really find sign (or not). as that trail passes along terrain changes, i usually find scrapes/rubs. Depending on what i see with relation to food/bedding/terrain funnels I will probably sit and watch the sign.
I also find that on long ridges, the north side trails are more worn, but sign is sparadic and usually directly at the top of or immediately adjacent to a connecting terrain feature (drain, finger, gap...etc.) When i find a cluster of 2 or more scrapes, i will sit all day if not 2+ full days over it. Most of the time it's a tough long hike to get to these places which is also motivation to stay longer in itself.

I rarely to never sit on a rub line in the mountains, because if you find rubs a scrape or two are usually close by so i keep going until i find the scrapes he's using. The only early rub i mentioned earlier was later followed with a scrape. The scrape was open for about a week before season opened so that i could move in. I killed him opening day on his way to check it. I've killed 3 bucks in this same location by doing this (only 1 of the 3 bucks made early rubs).

With very low deer density, you have a very high probability that there really is only 1 buck using a scrape you find and he might have a 5 mile multi-day loop he covers and numerous beds he uses along the way before he gets back around to you.

One thing i've tried doing this season is hunting the same area, but not the exact same tree or spot. It also depends a lot on how good my access to the spot. I can say 2 days is my max now just becuase i have a short hunting season and wasting too much time at one spot means missing out on another. The majority of my hunting spots only have one feasable entry/exit route so you really have to get creative on stand locations especially on a mtn top/ side ridge/shelf area.

I'd say the newest game changer for me is the addition of a tree saddle 2 seasons ago (started with the guido's web - which is like sitting in my recliner by the way). before this, i never carried a tree stand because walking up/down and through 2 miles of mtn terrain was just not happening! I've never killed a buck from a tree stand, so i'm still waiting to do that. it's addicting to be within 20yrds at eyeball level with a buck before you down him. but being in a tree has many more advantages from a sight perspective!


Sorry to ramble but hopefully someone can set me straight. "I" think i'm doing the right things or am going in the right direction at least, but with low deer population, it requires more time and being in the woods to see it pay off.

But man is it rewarding when it does!!!

[pewpewpew]

Just read 9 pages of great posts.... one question that I have is what time of day are you all doing your in season scouting? I would love to hear how some of you go through a given day? Are you staying in the woods all day? Hunting mornings, leaving, & heading back in early afternoon knowing you will be scouting some different spots? Not hunting mornings & heading in to scout midday, finding sign, hanging a stand, & sitting for 5,6,7 hours? How long would you all say you average sitting on stand?

For YEARS I had a horrible habit of just sitting in one stand ALL day long from 1.5hrs before daylight to an 1hr after dark. I would move stand locations from day to day, but I would still sit there all day . I had always just rationalized it by telling myself it was necessary for my area since the deer density is very low (WRONG). It never occurred to me until years later that I was completely backwards. Because of the low density, I really needed to move MORE because they had such a massive home range to cover in order to find food and to find “the girls”. So over the last 6-8 years, I have started doing more in-season scouting and have had much better success as a result.

My all day sits USED to focus more around the end of October/November time. But i find myself doing more mid-day scouting as of the past couple years due to having good success from it. For instance, sit on stand till 9-11am, scout during belly time, then sit from 2-4pm till dark. The thing I keep in mind is "You can't kill them, if you're not in the woods" so I never leave the woods until i'm going home for the day.

Early season I will do some morning sits here or there if I know exactly where I’m going and I am confident that I won’t spook deer. In a low density area i rarely spook deer (i spook more bear and hogs).
Late season I’ll admit that I still struggle with how to manage hunting times. I do a mixture of morning, all day and evening hunts (I go whenever I have time to go really).
Late season I have always heard folk talk about hunting the food. In a big woods - mountainous area, I struggle with finding "the food". This is where I need to take a dose of my own medicine and really focus on the mobile aspect and still hunt more.
I myself am still learning and I’m going to try a lot of new things this season as result of my own history, this forum and Dan's videos.
I am going to scout in-season more, use my new found beast skills and be more aggressive this fall.

If I don’t kill anything, fine, at least I’ll learn something. If I do get one , GREAT! But, I’ll still learn something. So, why not just try!?!? That’s my plan anyways

I’m also hunting low-density mountains. I’d love to hear more about what kind of sign you’ve found most helpful.

The only thing that gets me excited is piles of poop in thick cover. Everything else, I assume it’s night sign.

With low density, you really can’t count on deer observations to give you a good picture. Seeing 2 deer a day is a days good hunt for me.

Based on how my season has been so far, I don't know that I can offer you much. I've seen 4 deer in the past 2 months/~20 hunts. None of which were shootable encounters since Does are off limits here. i've been hunting pre-scouted beds alot, food, transitions, funnels, and rotated stands religiously with no sightings. I am losing my confidence to say the least .

I have hunted my entire life in these mountains. Its a love/hate relationship that i don't plan on changing. i know i'll probably catch heck for saying it, but i think my area is probably one of the most difficult areas to hunt in the country. Even though i get frustrated, I think I am slowly starting to understand more about my situation and i know there is something i'm missing that i just cannot put my finger on..... I've heard Dan mention that low deer density areas are tough to build confidence in with beast style hunting. I for one can testify to that!

Feel free to tell me where i'm wrong or just a complete idiot after reading this:
When bear/hog (with dogs) season is open, Deer season is closed. I simply bear and hog hunt and scout right along with them. But the deer go into lock down and its like hitting the pause button for deer sign.

There is usually a couple week window of no hunting before another deer season opens here so the deer get a little breathing room during the "Bi-weeks" to start making sign.

I can count on 1 hand how many rubs i've ever found before Oct 20th (i wound up killing him too...and was my best ever ). Rubs just don't occur till late here. Other than that, I don't get excited until i see clusters of sign either rubs or scrapes. I usually keep walking by one-off peices of sign. I try to stay away from sign down low in the hollers or creek drains even if it's fantastic. I've never been successful and it's not because of a scent bust, I just never have seen anything pass through the low places in the mountains in day light.

I find myself more and more focusing on single nobs or mountain tops and steep-short ridge lines. Basically the tops that you can see at night standing out alone.
It seems to me that the deer congregate near the top (upper 1/2 elevation and above) and just traverse around as the wind changes (and it does continuously). The south side face is usually a lural/ ivy and briar thickets that you can't get through quietly and the north side is usually dark open woods.
i find bedding on shelves or old tree stumps that have turned up. When/If I find sparce sign around the base of the mountain, i usually turn and walk straight up to the top from it until a cross a good trail. Then I turn based on the wind and walk along that trail. Thats when i really find sign (or not). as that trail passes along terrain changes, i usually find scrapes/rubs. Depending on what i see with relation to food/bedding/terrain funnels I will probably sit and watch the sign.
I also find that on long ridges, the north side trails are more worn, but sign is sparadic and usually directly at the top of or immediately adjacent to a connecting terrain feature (drain, finger, gap...etc.) When i find a cluster of 2 or more scrapes, i will sit all day if not 2+ full days over it. Most of the time it's a tough long hike to get to these places which is also motivation to stay longer in itself.

I rarely to never sit on a rub line in the mountains, because if you find rubs a scrape or two are usually close by so i keep going until i find the scrapes he's using. The only early rub i mentioned earlier was later followed with a scrape. The scrape was open for about a week before season opened so that i could move in. I killed him opening day on his way to check it. I've killed 3 bucks in this same location by doing this (only 1 of the 3 bucks made early rubs).

With very low deer density, you have a very high probability that there really is only 1 buck using a scrape you find and he might have a 5 mile multi-day loop he covers and numerous beds he uses along the way before he gets back around to you.

One thing i've tried doing this season is hunting the same area, but not the exact same tree or spot. It also depends a lot on how good my access to the spot. I can say 2 days is my max now just becuase i have a short hunting season and wasting too much time at one spot means missing out on another. The majority of my hunting spots only have one feasable entry/exit route so you really have to get creative on stand locations especially on a mtn top/ side ridge/shelf area.

I'd say the newest game changer for me is the addition of a tree saddle 2 seasons ago (started with the guido's web - which is like sitting in my recliner by the way). before this, i never carried a tree stand because walking up/down and through 2 miles of mtn terrain was just not happening! I've never killed a buck from a tree stand, so i'm still waiting to do that. it's addicting to be within 20yrds at eyeball level with a buck before you down him. but being in a tree has many more advantages from a sight perspective!


Sorry to ramble but hopefully someone can set me straight. "I" think i'm doing the right things or am going in the right direction at least, but with low deer population, it requires more time and being in the woods to see it pay off.

But man is it rewarding when it does!!!

The struggle is real! I’m with you.

It’s just about impossible to draw conclusions or pattern deer, if you are only seeing one or two a sit. It all seems random if you can’t really nail down repeatable patterns. The most amount of deer I have ever seen at one time, including private fields, roads, ect. is 5! FIVE! I’ve seen seen groups of 5 deer on maybe 3 occasions in three years. Never while hunting.

I’ve put a lot of miles scouting and cutting tracks. One of the most useful things has been to keep track of where you bump deer while scouting. Some places I never kick up a deer, some places I kick up deer often. Those tend to be the spots to hunt. A very caveman strategy, but it’s helpful.

I run a decent amount of trail cameras over 500 acres of public. The cameras give me hope because there are nice shooters out there, but they are definetly nomadic. There is no such thing as a “buck bedroom” with patternable bed to feed patterns.

There really are very few bucks where I hunt. I’d guess maybe 10 resident bucks. I really believe they can create a massive amount of rubs. I don’t put a lot of value in rubs. I also find massive amounts of sign in creek bottoms.

I have found that the later in the season, the more deer will spend time in the thickest, greenest, nasiest areas.

What tree saddle are you using now? Any tips or suggestions? I’m looking to get into saddle hunting.

[UofLbowhunter]

nice info bud and pepaw, lot of learning there

[<DK>]

I might do a full write up about my "off" season but to contribute now - 3 times this season I either passed up hot sign or hunted it wrong and paid for it all 3 times. Saw bucks everytime and all were out of range bc I chose to walk by it.

[pewpewpew]

I might do a full write up about my "off" season but to contribute now - 3 times this season I either passed up hot sign or hunted it wrong and paid for it all 3 times. Saw bucks everytime and all were out of range bc I chose to walk by it.

Do it. I’d like to hear more about this topic. I’ve generally heard two schools of thought:

1) If you come across got sign, don’t take a step further, retreat to a tree and set up.

2) if you come across hot sign, really dissect the areas, take you time and create a good ambush, less concerned about ground scent.

[hunting_dad]

Just found this thread and wanted to add an example of reacting to what you see NOW instead of staying away and being patient, and I think it goes along with in season scouting. I apologize if it’s off topic.

A few years ago I was hunting a 95 acre parcel that was fairly open in the middle with a creek on 2 sides and thickets along those creeks. All the bedding was in those thickets along the creeks. This particular year was the first year I had convinced myself to be more aggressive and react to fresh sign and what I actually see the deer doing, instead of sitting by and waiting for it to happen where I’m at. The previous few days I had noticed some large rubs had been made in the center open portion of the woods. I had seen this in previous years and just figured it was being made at night. No way they would go through there in the middle of the day.

This particular morning I was sitting a stand along one of the creeks and had a few deer come by but nothing I was after. Around mid-morning I noticed a pretty good buck cruising through the center woods and some other deer as well, but they were 100 yards or so away so I couldn’t really tell what the other deer were. I definitely knew that buck was a big one though. What I also noticed was that there was a small depression in the middle of those woods that I had never noticed until I viewed it from a distance. I waited until the activity had slowed down for about an hour or so and marked a tree for a reference point to know where to go. I grabbed my climber and quickly got over there, found a tree and climbed up. A few hours later I shot a 150” 10 point taking that exact path.

In years past, I would have never made the move and figured that sooner or later they would come by me because “they always come through here”. That’s what preseason scouting and past experience told me. If I would have paid a little more attention to the new rubs opening up, I should have been there in the first place and may have had a chance at him that morning. Opened my eyes huge to having to look at the woods and react to what is happening now, not what has happened in the past.

Awesome thread tgreeno!